HP Reverb

[Bishie]

where did you buy yours Bishie?

You asked for people's thoughts, I've just given you mine! I had a Samsung Odyssey previously, and a Rift before that. The WMR headsets are functionally similar, and I'd wager that the Reverb won't offer anything other than better comfort and sharper visuals. It's still stuck with the archaic tracking system and WMR controllers.

You're better off waiting for the Rift S or the Valve Index.

 

[fastboy]

well,since I wont be using the wmr controls and im only sat down for sim racing, the tracking is more than enough..so given a choice of better visuals and better comfort or better hand controls and separate tracking towers, for me its a no brainer

I have had the rift and a Lenovo headset,both worked good for sim racing,the tracking on the Lenovo was no worse than the rift but the clarity was better altho the sweetspot was bad.

so no..I wont be better of waiting for headsets with poorer clarity.

theres also the acer now which looks on paper like it could be better than the HP,i will buy whatever is best suited for the task at hand,whatever happens its looking a good year for us regarding VR

 

[Ravenger]

lol "apparent". Marketing speak for "we smeared petroleum jelly on the panels to hide the low resolution and SDE". "Don't mind that everything is blurry".

Are you talking about the Samsung Odyssey Plus? That has an anti-SDE blur filter. The Rift S's LCD screen is the same as the Oculus Go and is far, far sharper than the original Rift due to the subpixel layout and slightly higher resolution. This comes at the cost of greyer black levels.

 

[NZXT30]

The Reverb is not even worth considering at this point. The inferior tracking system and terrible WMR controllers leave much to be desired!

Many of us couldn't care less about standing subpar VR games. Its all about the seated simulators.

 

[Fine]

Many of us couldn't care less about standing subpar VR games. Its all about the seated simulators.

this is certainly my thoughts

 

[danoliver1]

Many of us couldn't care less about standing subpar VR games. Its all about the seated simulators.

^ This. Have my rift cv1 for "oculus exclusives" now i want a hmd with more resolution and fov preferably with inside out tracking for racing simulators. My only worry is can my 1080ti run this hmd at a decent fps.

 

[fastboy]

yea im the same dan..I have a lovely 1080ti

don't really want to upgrade.

 

[Bishie]

Many of us couldn't care less about standing subpar VR games. Its all about the seated simulators.

Developers are focusing on games that utilize motion controllers, especially with the advent of the Valve Knuckles. Even Sony are reportedly developing their own for the PSVR2.
Cockpit sims appeal to a niche audience. I own American Truck Simulator, Dirt Rally, Elite Dangerous, Project Cars 2 and Subnautica. They were a novelty at best, and certainly didn't raise the standard for VR. What seated sims do you play that push hardware sales?

The PSVR2, Rift S and Valve Index will cater to standing experiences, as will most games. It's certainly not all about seated simulators!

 

[Zeeflyboy]

It seems it is relatively trivial to use vive controllers with WMR headsets these days, so you aren't stuck with WMR tracking for anything other than the headset, which by most accounts is not too bad. Of course you will be looking at a higher cost due to the separate purchase of knuckles/wands and a dongle.

Personally I will probably be buying either an Index or this and knuckles... looking forward to finding out more on both.

 

[NZXT30]

Developers are focusing on games that utilize motion controllers, especially with the advent of the Valve Knuckles. Even Sony are reportedly developing their own for the PSVR2.
Cockpit sims appeal to a niche audience. I own American Truck Simulator, Dirt Rally, Elite Dangerous, Project Cars 2 and Subnautica. They were a novelty at best, and certainly didn't raise the standard for VR. What seated sims do you play that push hardware sales?

The PSVR2, Rift S and Valve Index will cater to standing experiences, as will most games. It's certainly not all about seated simulators!

I would argue that simulators have ensured VR's survival and without them some companies might have already given up. The games you mentioned plus dcs world, il2, iRacing and a few more all have very active and enthusiastic VR communities. There are tons of VR enthusiasts that simply don't care about standing and waving their hands around. You want to talk about niches? Standing while playing video games has never worked and will never ever take off.
Anytime a resolution bump gets mentioned the excitement is apparent while new motion controllers fail to bring the same level of excitement or any at all. Many people buy VR headets for the standing experiences but the novelty wears off quickly and the disadvantages become a pain. Seated experiences is what the majority of long term VR users settle for.
Even if you forget everything else, standing VR games will never become popular for one reason only: They destroy your lower back.

There is nothing more impressive in VR atm than seating in the cockpit of the F18c Hornet in dcs world.

 

[lokiss]

e are tons of VR enthusiasts that simply don't care about standing and waving their hands around. You want to talk about niches? Standing while playing video games has never worked and will never ever take off.

While I'm sure there are many that don't care for motion controlled games, ill happily take the bet that there are more in the VR sect that do. The problem has always been with the infancy of the tech, not the popularity. The Wii sold bucket loads, people enjoyed the premise, my old man was hooked for a while playing wii sports tennis. Kinect was another massively popular sell, people wanted to take the wii experience to the next level that Kinect promised, although ultimately flawed as a gen one device, then along with it's successor that was poorly targeted at the launch console that killed the momentum of the project.

You only have to look at the most popular VR games today, Beat Saber, Pavlov, Blade and Sorcery, Gorn, Vacation/Job sim there's a generation coming up that lap it up. In 5-10 years time that's where the market will be, it'll be the mainstream regardless of the niche sim genres that exist. Already I think what's the point if I want to play a FPS game like a counterstrike if it's not in VR while ducking around the scenery and pulling a mean face as I fire what my mind is telling me is a real gun. That is no different a desire to sitting in the car, in the air plane, spacecraft or truck that only happens in the magic that is VR.

It's clear to me that the industry hasn't for one moment abated with the push to evolve the motion projects that they've been developing for some time, they know like me that's where the mainstream will be heading.

What's with the comment about the lower back?

 

[Bishie]

While I'm sure there are many that don't care for motion controlled games, ill happily take the bet that there are more in the VR sect that do. The problem has always been with the infancy of the tech, not the popularity. The Wii sold bucket loads, people enjoyed the premise, my old man was hooked for a while playing wii sports tennis. Kinect was another massively popular sell, people wanted to take the wii experience to the next level that Kinect promised, although ultimately flawed as a gen one device, then along with it's successor that was poorly targeted at the launch console that killed the momentum of the project.

You only have to look at the most popular VR games today, Beat Saber, Pavlov, Blade and Sorcery, Gorn, Vacation/Job sim there's a generation coming up that lap it up. In 5-10 years time that's where the market will be, it'll be the mainstream regardless of the niche sim genres that exist. Already I think what's the point if I want to play a FPS game like a counterstrike if it's not in VR while ducking around the scenery and pulling a mean face as I fire what my mind is telling me is a real gun. That is no different a desire to sitting in the car, in the air plane, spacecraft or truck that only happens in the magic that is VR.

It's clear to me that the industry hasn't for one moment abated with the push to evolve the motion projects that they've been developing for some time, they know like me that's where the mainstream will be heading.

What's with the comment about the lower back?

Thank you for being the voice of reason.

 

[NZXT30]

What's with the comment about the lower back?

Standing is really bad for you and puts pressure in many parts of your body specifically your lower back. There is a reason jobs where you stand all day are some of the most undesirable ones that people want to avoid. Who wants to play games like that? Nobody and it has been proven many times with xbox kinect, playstation move etc.

 

[Bishie]

Standing is really bad for you and puts pressure in many parts of your body specifically your lower back. There is a reason jobs where you stand all day are some of the most undesirable ones that people want to avoid. Who wants to play games like that? Nobody and it has been proven many times with xbox kinect, playstation move etc.

You're talking out of the lower part of your anatomy! There's plenty of evidence to suggest that standing is healthier for you, more so if you're engaged in physical activity. People actively exercise by playing games such as Beat Saber. Yes, it can be grueling, but you soon get used to it! Seated experiences are not everybody's cup of tea. I'd sooner play something like Skyrim VR or No Man's Sky VR!

 

[lokiss]

Standing is really bad for you and puts pressure in many parts of your body specifically your lower back. There is a reason jobs where you stand all day are some of the most undesirable ones that people want to avoid.

Well i'm in my mid 40's and for the last 26 of them I've worked in a paint shop and on my feet all day. Honestly I can't figure where you're coming from with a statement like that, most of the guy's I work with do injuries to the back by lifting daft weight where the overhead can't get in. There's always a random unlucky element, but generally there's an action that triggers it.

At no time playing anything VR have I felt any discomfort on my back at all. If anything it's more the shoulders, and rather ironically more so when the hands have been outstretched on the wheel for hours playing AC with the FFB yanking me about.

 

[markoboyo11]

Standing is really bad for you and puts pressure in many parts of your body specifically your lower back. There is a reason jobs where you stand all day are some of the most undesirable ones that people want to avoid. Who wants to play games like that? Nobody and it has been proven many times with xbox kinect, playstation move etc.

The only people that get back pain from simply standing are fat *****, that is a very silly argument.

My main interest in vr is for sim racing but will enjoy any other good games/experiences with it aswell.

 

[Zeeflyboy]

Sitting for long periods is how you destroy your back.... There's a reason standing desks are even a thing!

Standing is much, much better for your back, and being active (such as in a typical standing VR game) is even more so.

That doesn't make you wrong about the fact that a significant number of people prefer seated experiences. Even after touch released, oculus noted that a significant number of people seem to prefer seated experiences, I've seen numerous references to that but here's one https://www.vrfocus.com/2018/06/ocu...ted-experiences-looks-to-reddit-for-feedback/

I think the question probably comes down to the type of experience - the typical person will happily play a seated VR game for hours, whereas a standing one maybe only for shorter periods. I know that I for one, despite being relatively fit, played skyrim seated because it is the sort of game you sink hours into and I didn't want to stand the whole time... that and the combat isn't exactly engaging anyway. If I was playing a game where I would play for say 30-60mins at a time then standing is great (apart from tangling/stepping on the cord!).

I don't think the sim crowd should be underestimated either. They were definitely some of the early adopters and being relatively cost insensitive probably provide a fairly significant chunk of those willing to stump up for premium headsets, helping to create/support a market for more high end experiences. To me the sim side of things still provides one of the most compelling arguments for why VR is not going away any time soon... the experience is just so transformational. Add higher resolution in to the mix and the main argument against their use for sims starts to disappear.

 

[NZXT30]

Sitting for long periods is how you destroy your back.... There's a reason standing desks are even a thing!

Standing is much, much better for your back, and being active (such as in a typical standing VR game) is even more so.

Yes of course there is reason these desks exist. Same reason for everything else to make money for the companies that produce them and market them.

I guess you didn't type that reply from a standing desk. Here is a bit of research: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs...croll=top&needAccess=true&journalCode=terg20&

Most of you are confusing standing and waving your arms around to proper physical activity which is indeed amazing for you. Probably same kind of people that bought Wii fit expecting to actually get fit.

I agree with the rest of your post btw, without seated experiences and simulators VR might have already died as a consumer product. Oculus put most of their emphasis on motion controls and standing experiences and they've pretty much crashed out of the VR race now.

 

[lokiss]

Oculus put most of their emphasis on motion controls and standing experiences and they've pretty much crashed out of the VR race now.

Really?

I presume you're aware that the Quest launches soon, and practically everything launching with it are some of the most celebrated motion/standing games.

Most of you are confusing standing and waving your arms around to proper physical activity which is indeed amazing for you.

No offense but I gym 6 nights a week, so lemme just say that a few rounds in Creed, Virtual Boxing League, or Thrill of the fight are murderous, and hammer your heart rate as hard as any cardio available elsewhere.

 

[Zeeflyboy]

Yes but most of the negative implications come from standing still... not standing and moving, or changing between seated and standing. For your study you link there, there are also plenty of studies one could counter with showing how sitting still is incredibly bad for you (even to the extent that exercising doesn't fix the higher mortality rate of prolonged static sitting see for example https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/too-much-sitting-linked-to-an-early-death-201401297004 ).

The human body doesn't really seem to like to stay still, whether standing or sitting... but to argue that standing is bad for you ignores the fact that sitting is quite arguably worse, especially in the long term, and that moving is universally accepted as preferable to staying still from a health perspective.

While some games are just gently wafting your arms around, most that I've played do involve a fair bit of movement and some games such as the ones lokiss mentioned, or beat saber etc actually leave you sweating - so to say that they aren't proper physical activity is somewhat misleading. Even the ones that have gentle movement are preferable from a health stand point to just sitting at a keyboard which involves far less movement than any standing VR game I've ever seen.

Again, I don't disagree with the point about seated experiences (both sims and others) being important and indeed preferable to a significant portion of users and is far from being niche... or at least not niche within the niche that is VR .

I think as always the answer is to cater to multiple experiences as people enjoy different things... it doesn't have to be an either/or scenario. A headset having great motion controls/room scale doesn't stop it from being a great seated experience headset, nor vice versa.