Discussion in 'Virtual Reality' started by fastboy, Mar 21, 2019.
Top advice. I appreciate that. Worst case, one will be sold be it the reverb or the rift s
I just watched a review talking about an updated reverb. Are there new ones out now?
here is one a mate of mine just did hope it helps https://youtu.be/KgmNSXxNzyo
Just ordered mine direct from HP. They have brought the price down to just over £500. Going to be using mainly for sim racing
We have a few HP Reverbs in work for our Prepar3d training systems. They are very sharp at displaying HUD data and switch labels on 3D cockpit instruments. We did try the Varjo but found the low resolution peripheral view distracting for air-air training.
You'll not be disappointed
just a heads up- it's £437 at HP. Still a pass if you mostly play casual games with controllers, still unbeatable if you're mostly into seated simulators.
Just found out you can enable rear projection on the reverb.
If this was a Steam VR headset it'd give the Index a run for the money, at least for sims. Windows MR is essentially a dead platform now, compared with Steam VR and Oculus.
Not sure I follow, Windows MR headsets (including the HP Reverb (as of Oct 2019?)) work fine in Steam VR ? My two WMR Samsung Odysseys's still work amazingly well IMO in steam VR (still use them regularly) and seem fully supported, if anything the installation of WMR headsets has got better and better over time so getting Steam VR up and running is almost automatic.
I still get some CV1/Vive owners trying the Samsung Odyssey+ and finding the SDE reduction is surprisingly OK and also they all commented on how good the tracking is despite the negativity around it.
I agree that the uncertainty of WMR is the issue, if they did an inside out tracking 2.0 (closer to the new Occulus headsets) I think they'd be competitive, but that's down to Microsoft, each Windows 10 release has put effort in to improving WMR and as mentioned Steam VR support keeps improving, so not sure it's completely irrelevant.. Especially as Odysseys used to be £250-£300 imported with OLED 1600x1440 per eye res, IPD adjustment etc, pretty close specs to the Vive Pro for a fraction of the cost.
The main issue is that WMR is no longer in active development, which means that the other platforms will move on while WMR will stagnate. Potentially WMR support could end completely like it has for previous Microsoft products.
It's a darn fine headset, I just wish it was on a properly supported platform like Steam or Oculus, with decent tracking and controllers, then I'd look at buying it.
I actually completely agree, its typical Microsoft / Google mentality, zero vision at all..
The main thing I didn't follow is that AFAIK (and IME) WMR headsets are properly supported on Steam, whilst technically you need the WMR plugin, it's installed automatically and of the (admittedly not exhaustive) 25 games in my Steam VR Library they all work flawlessly.
I know initially the reverb was not supported, but as of October I think it started working in Steam and I presume like my WMR headsets once it's supported it just works across the board.
Anyone who wants a Reverb for sims should probably look at the:
2. Pimax Artisan
3. Pimax 8KX/8K+
They are the best sim-headsets IMO with better ecosystems than WMR. I'd say the Pimax headsets are probably best in class for sims because the clarity is reportedly astonishing and the extra FOV will give you a much better immersion factor for velocity etc. However it comes at the cost of build quality, customer service, software support and price.
The Index is a good place to invest but there ARE hardware issues and Valve will not advance RMA any of your issues but instead put you through a month long RMA process. And no, I'm not biased. I own one and have those issues.
If I was starting over in VR and had the money, I'd probably edge towards waiting for the 8KX and throwing my money that way.
The highlighted part is not true, my left stick developed drift so I contacted valve via a support ticket (last Thursday) and today I have an advanced RMA controller sitting on my PC charging. Less than a week from enquiry to having to new controller, it may not be typical but it's proof it's not all one way.
From my experience, I contacted them and was refused an advanced RMA for a faulty controller and a faulty headset so I guess people's milage may vary.
Given the multiple RMA threads on the valve subreddit of people waiting up to 4 weeks for their replacement controlers to come back, I'd advise that your case is probably atypical.
Although the Valve subreddit isn't an entirely acurate representation of how the RMA process works, I think its probably the best we have.
I don't quite agree with that summary, each to their own, but I spend a lot of time in iRacing, PCars2 and AC in a dedicated sim rig and whilst of course I'd love to upgrade from my samsung odyssey it has opened up my eyes to the current considerations that most people need to practically consider.
1. Resolution - more is good, but you have to be able to drive it. Many people complained when the 1600 x 1440 Samsung Odyssey / Vive Pro came along and to some extent they where right. I have a Titan Xp (~1080ti) and it's quite a job getting a good set of compromised settings, some super sampling to make the most of the resolution, but keeping 90hz requires a lot of graphical options turned down. I thought of upgrading to an RTX2080ti, but I've decided to wait for the RTX3000 series as even the 2080ti stuggles in many sims.
2. Framerate - For sims it's not the same as twitch shooters, I accidentally had my HMD set at 60hz which was noticeable but surprisingly OK for a sim, I played for a week in around 10-12 races before realising and put it back to 90 which feels so smooth, I don't remotely notice anything but the fluidity (in sims). I think room scale may be where its more important, I do sense that 90 is great, but would like to try 120hz.. But, another 30 Hz means more GPU power again..
3. FOV - Something I was eager to try going for super wide and went to try a PiMax 5K (seriously considered this one) to see how it would fair. Immediately the extra GPU required meant significant tweaking of settings to the point it looked ugly, jaggy, etc and whilst noticeable, it actually added far less then I thought. Lots of VR sim racers comment that they notice the FOV when trying a pimax, but actually they just rationalise the narrower FOV as like wearing a helmet, which is mandatory in almost all forms of track racing. I think that's a bit of an excuse, however even when I went back to my regular FOV it didn't take long before I forgot about it. The other aspect is when we wanted to get reasonable visuals/fps on the 5k, we ended up having to reduce the FOV, this just left it with the slightly nicer optics (IMO).
4. Tracking - I started out in VR by borrowing my brothers HMDs (CV1, then Vive), each time on the sim rig getting reliable tracking wasn't so easy positioning the , when you move all over the sim rig (maybe you just look over the side of your single seater car, oggling at the visual quality of the suspension) the tracking sometimes get obscured and getting it 100% reliable wasn't quite smooth sailing. By contrast, Inside Out tracking just works 99.9% of the time.. Currently with WMR you don't even need to calibrate anything if you configure it as seated, just put the headset on and look down, then left/right and it auto calibrates (The plus side is I can quickly use it in my office chair as well which is close by, but facing the opposite direction) so I can have seated VR experiences on the desktop.
5. PiMax - Are exhibiting the traits of most Chinese companies, throwing new hardware out each year and often a bit ill thought out (the first gen 8K with not enough video bandwidth?), This approach annoys me with my Chinese Android head unit in the car, rather than improve firmware/features on the unit, they just knock another improved in some ways, broken in others unit out and ignore what they've already peddled. Now, I think PiMax aren't quite that bad, but I prefer the Valve/HTC approach of newer headsets every few years, put a bit more time in to development and making the best of the hardware. I actually worry about the PiMax eco-system, it actually detracts and puts me off investing at this moment.
Now, I am itching to upgrade my Samsung Odyssey, the main thing would be improved optics, getting larger sweet spots to me would be something I'd notice more of the time, and I think this generation of headsets has improved in that area.
I also like what is happening with tracking (fingers etc) and the controllers, nice refinements, and whilst these are probably really not a sim thing, when you do the room scale stuff, it's nice to have.
Sim racing friends have come around to try my setup, and they get immediately hooked.. The 1600 x 1440 is a bit of a push for most people's current GPUs, but it is about the minimum resolution I feel gives enough clarity that you aren't constantly getting bothered by large jaggies..
The issue has been for them choosing a new headset..
A couple opted for the Occulus Quest (odd choice IMO) on the basis it was getting PC connectivity (which turned out OK I think) and allowed a super casual way of getting in to VR in general.
One went for the Rift S for the IO Tracking and as they liked the brand, felt it would be well supported (which no doubt it will be)
3 of them have actually got the heavily discounted Samsung Odyssey+ ($229 + import fees + shipping) for £280 (Actually I'd say almost compellingly cheap, and extremely well supported in Steam VR)
All of them decided the PiMax was not for them (GPU, brand, etc) and nearly all considered the Valve Index but felt £900 was too much, they would rather upgrade their GPU and spend £400 on a Rift S / Odyssey.
The Reverb I mentioned just to give them all options, but the resolution and GPU situation killed it completely, the current generation GPU's are not able to get the best out of that, and they aren't thinking oa spending well over £1000 on a 3080 (or whatever transpires)
The ones who bought the Odyssey's are mainly for Sims although they have all borrowed my Steam library to try the room scale games, the Rift S owner wanted a more mixed seated/room scale experience.
Just some thoughts, and I have zero issues with opposing opinions on this, we all have different priorities.
I completely agree with that, I picked up the odyssey plus for £250 all in when it was on offer, for the price it can't be beaten.
I have also looked around at the alternatives and there isn't really any alternatives other than the index, which isn't cost effective for the price. The rift s is more of a sideways upgrade that will only improve the tracking, although I never have tracking issues unless the lighting is poor or the batteries are running out.
Pimax is great on paper, but there track record isnt great.
Suppose the reverb is an option but is still only an inside out tracker with 2 cameras
Seb at MRTV has just posted a mini review of the Reverb V2:
One interesting thing is his opinion of the current state of Windows MR tracking, he thinks its equal with the Rift S / Quest, and I would tend to agree, I've never had issues with the Odyssey but since we play quite a mixture of games I can say that I've never noticed any tracking issues for a long time, so it's nice to see for once MS actually improving things.
I do like his review making it look good for simracers etc, this is primarily my use case, so if these ever go on offer I might upgrade one of the Odyssey's..
The problem is that WMR is a bit of a fading platform, i'm not sure id want to put up £600 with the situation as it is where software support might drop over time. Acer have just backed away from a similar spec'd device they were going to push out. You can speculate as to why, but perhaps WMR was one of those reasons.
Not trashing the reverb for it's current qualities, and the cheaper WMR devices are a total recommend for VR entry level. The price you pay though, id be looking at the Index, it really is good enough in it's display quality not to suffer the extra res the HP offers up.
Completely agree on WMR being a fading platform, it certainly isn't getting anywhere near the love it deserves!
However, when they have good sales, these things drop to crazy prices, the Samsung Odyssey+ is $229 in the US at the moment, imported for under £300, so if the Reverbs ever go on sale they may be at a price its worth considering (and the only reason I'd get one)
I am not worried about software support, WMR is effectively fully supported in Steam VR and has only got better, so even if it stagnates and doesn't get further developed I'm more than happy with things as they stand and I can't see any reason I'd worry they will suddenly 'drop' things to the point you can't just use what's out there today.
I do also agree if looking at £600-£900 then the Index just has more features and I'm sure everyone would agree with you it would be the one to consider, but if the prices drop to £400 for the reverb and it was that or the rift S, I think I'd get the Reverb.
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