HS2/High Speed 2 - Will it happen?

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I've come away for the weekend on HS1. It is amazing zipping through the countryside at 140Mph, going twice the speed of the cars on the motorway.

HS1 has really opened up Kent, making it a feasible commute to London. I can see HS2 having a major impact on the Midlands.
 
Bonjour said:
I've come away for the weekend on HS1. It is amazing zipping through the countryside at 140Mph, going twice the speed of the cars on the motorway.

HS1 has really opened up Kent, making it a feasible commute to London. I can see HS2 having a major impact on the Midlands.
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Yes, Well paid London workers will buy up all the best housing and push the prices up for everybody else.

It will be a disaster for the Midlands :mad:
 
Orionaut said:
Yes, Well paid London workers will buy up all the best housing and push the prices up for everybody else.

It will be a disaster for the Midlands :mad:
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Compared to the number of people in the Midlands already, how will a few trains' worth of people each morning moving to the Midlands ever have a significant increase in house prices?

There's already millions so a few thousand isn't going to move the needle is it.

And where are these people going to spend their wages if they live in the Midlands?
 
chanjy said:
Compared to the number of people in the Midlands already, how will a few trains' worth of people each morning moving to the Midlands ever have a significant increase in house prices?

There's already millions so a few thousand isn't going to move the needle is it.

And where are these people going to spend their wages if they live in the Midlands?
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Wouldnt be surprised if "investors" were looking to buy up land/property on/near the route already, pricing will be high and it will effect areas tapering away from the line and of course will push prices even higher in the likes of Manchester and Birmingham as an extra stressor.

But y'know it's fine.
 
chanjy said:
Compared to the number of people in the Midlands already, how will a few trains' worth of people each morning moving to the Midlands ever have a significant increase in house prices?

There's already millions so a few thousand isn't going to move the needle is it.

And where are these people going to spend their wages if they live in the Midlands?
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Its trickle down. Just like London and the SE.

A relatively small number of wealthy buyers moving into an area has a massive effect on the overall market.
 
chanjy said:
Compared to the number of people in the Midlands already, how will a few trains' worth of people each morning moving to the Midlands ever have a significant increase in house prices?
There's already millions so a few thousand isn't going to move the needle is it.
And where are these people going to spend their wages if they live in the Midlands?
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By the same token, how many people are these trains capable of transporting.
The ones that may eventually be on the HS line and how often will the service run?
I ask, as if it is only a few thousand people, then why on earth are we building such a route, will it really make such a difference?
 
Destination said:
By the same token, how many people are these trains capable of transporting.
The ones that may eventually be on the HS line and how often will the service run?
I ask, as if it is only a few thousand people, then why on earth are we building such a route, will it really make such a difference?
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It's millions a year - 4 trains an hour, up to 500 per train, 18 hours a day, every day of the year.

But if we are talking about going there 200x a year in the rush hour, then that's a much smaller number.
 
I didn't realise they were expecting 4 trains per hour with shorter carriages.
Japanese manage 16 carriage trains which i figure hold around 1000 people given the carriages I was on.
Running to multiple destinations but the main Nagoya line leaves in slow poke form 320kmph every 30 minutes, with the faster variants going off as well.

So those numbers will be quite possible if the rail company can actually manage to get them to run every 15 minutes.
 
If they do manage the 12-13 million journey/passengers per year, then for 56 Billion investment, £4000 a journey/passenger/year.
Tickets at £100 a journey, it'll pay itself off in 40 years, assuming zero maintenance and running expenses.

Still doesn't seem just the best of deals.
 
It's a bad joke and a terrible waste of money, it's not really shorter journey times we need but increased capacity, reliability and reduced prices this investment in HS rail just means less investment in the existing infrastructure which will only benefit a select few who can afford the fare hikes!

Whats the point in dumping an extra 2000 people an hour into a London terminal when they public transport system they will be boarding for there onward journey is already at breaking point!
 
Frankly people are ridiculous who are against this citing:
a) "it's only going to shave 20 mins off the journey"
b) "Londoners are going to ruin the Midlands and the North"

As a Northerner in Leeds, the North NEEDS HS2.
 
Ricochet J said:
Frankly people are ridiculous who are against this citing:
a) "it's only going to shave 20 mins off the journey"
b) "Londoners are going to ruin the Midlands and the North"

As a Northerner in Leeds, the North NEEDS HS2.
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What does the north need HS2 for? what will the 20 minute reduction in journey time and massive hike in fares deliver for the local economy?

The proposal just reinforces a London Centric Economy which has the capital at breaking point and the regions languishing.
 
Amazing, this shows a lack of understanding.

a1ex2001 said:
What does the north need HS2 for? what will the 20 minute reduction in journey time and massive hike in fares deliver for the local economy?

The proposal just reinforces a London Centric Economy which has the capital at breaking point and the regions languishing.
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I'll address your points, and then some:
  • First of all, HS2 is a capacity project - it increases capacity on our congested railways. The solution to this also happens to be modern and fast trains. Hence the "High Speed" moniker. So it's not just a 20 minute reduction in time - it's increased capacity.

    Accept that.

    In addition to the above, here are the actual time savings (From London, and vice versa):
    • London to Birmingham. Current fastest journey time is 1 hour 13 mins. Journey time after HS2 is 49 mins. 24 mins saving.
    • London to Manchester. Current fastest journey time is 2 hours. Journey time after HS2 is 1 hour 8 mins. 52 mins saving.
    • London to Leeds. Current fastest journey time is 1 hour 59 mins. Journey time after HS2 is 1 hour 28 mins. 31 mins saving.
  • The above is compared to fastest journey times - which have an average frequency of 1 train per day. E.g. The regular East Coast Leeds to London service is actually 2 hours 12 mins - therefore larger time savings will be had. Ditto for Birmingham and Manchester.
  • So it's not just saving 20 mins is it?
  • Off course there will be much wider implications. Regional areas such as Liverpool, York, Scotland etc., will use the HS2 tracks via classic compatible trains meaning time savings for everyone. So it's not just Birmingham, Manchester and Leeds benefiting - it's the entire country.
  • HS2 will link into two of the fastest growing airports in the country - Birmingham airport and Manchester airport. It alleviates stress from London centric (as you put it) airports. Airport slots in the South East are expensive - if carriers can move their operations to the Midlands and the North and have incentive to do so (hint: HS2) then they will. Do not underestimate how much it costs for airlines to have a slot in airports in the South East. This will remove over-subscription of airspace in the South East and shift it to the Northern areas.
  • I agree with you - I hate how this country is centralised around London. I used to live in London and left it for Leeds. I'm happier for it.

    HS2 helps to balance the economy - you absolutely must (in fact it's imperative) understand that businesses want to leave London if they can, but they still want to have the benefits of being close to London. London will always be the central hub - but there are always needs to have offices that are not in London. HS2 will help in that regard. A lot of the big players in manufacturing (Proctor and Gamble, Unilever, Johnson & Johnson etc.,) do not have their R&D offices in London - they're outside of London in the North! Being able to connect up to London will be huge for the economy of the North.
  • Sir David Higgins has also said that the ticketing for HS2 will be equivalent to our European and Asian counterparts. I.e. walk up to a machine, and pay an affordable fair. It doesn't have the same business plan as our existing archaic railways where a single to London from Leeds on the day of travel costs a whopping £80. On the day purchases Leeds to London will cost circa £20 (not adjusted for inflation).
  • HS2 will help reinforce existing economies. E.g. Leeds is the digital hub of the UK outside of London. Having a tie in to London (and by extension the continent via Euston) is a HUGE benefit.
  • HS2 will tie into the Northern Powerhouse Rail (TfN) project to link up Liverpool, Manchester, Leeds, Newcastle. Imagine having linked cities in the North whose GVA and GDP rival London - that's absolutely huge news for the economy.
I could continue to cite many reasons why HS2 is NEEDED for the entire country. I suspect 99% of this will go over your head.
 
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