Human Rights: Single mums might not be sent to prison

GGizmo · 18 Jun 2019 at 14:08

I guess it depends what type of crime they are convicted of.

This is a very delicate line to balance. Essentially they are lowering the punishment for women who are mothers. If a mother knowingly commits a crime as the punishment stands today, then it stands to reason the ones on the verge of doing that will be encouraged to recieve less of a punishment in the future.

Also it depends if there is a father on the scene too. If he is then why should the mother get an easy ride as its not affecting the child if s/he has a father.

Felon · 18 Jun 2019 at 14:12

Obviously people will be incandescent with rage, at the idea that it might in some cases be better for the lives and chances of children, that their mother is spared from jail - when a father in the same position would be jailed.

I'm not looking at this from a black and white perspective, there will be mothers out there who will commit serious crimes - who should be jailed (and will be jailed) no matter what. I don't think the article in question, or the government is claiming that no mothers will ever be jailed, it seems to be a more thoughtful look at how to prevent children being wrecked, because they grow up damaged and hateful of a system that took their mum away from them.

Chris Wilson · 18 Jun 2019 at 14:14

Minstadave said:
Why does a right to family life only protect mothers from prison? Is a father not part of family life?

These days depressingly often not, no.

The Victorian workhouse was a good system for bints that go off the rails, and give `en an extra two years if they sport tattoos.

Chris Wilson · 18 Jun 2019 at 14:17

BowdonUK said:
I guess it depends what type of crime they are convicted of.

This is a very delicate line to balance. Essentially they are lowering the punishment for women who are mothers. If a mother knowingly commits a crime as the punishment stands today, then it stands to reason the ones on the verge of doing that will be encouraged to recieve less of a punishment in the future.

Also it depends if there is a father on the scene too. If he is then why should the mother get an easy ride as its not affecting the child if s/he has a father.

The next thing is in addition to getting the under legal age kids to do their crimes they'll be getting their "partners" to, as well. Getting pregnant has never been more desirable to the under-classes.

Chris Wilson · 18 Jun 2019 at 14:19

Freakbro said:
I know rite, I feel completely oppressed being a white male in this country.....LOL

You seem to be getting a little excited over something that happens anyway, since sentencing is always variable dependent on circumstances.

And as for the very rich....you don't think that happens (metaphorically) anyway? It's always been one rule for "them" one for "us" - Them being rich/positions of power/people with connections etc.

You will never beat the class / monetary systems. So work hard and join them

TheVoice · 18 Jun 2019 at 14:26

This is probably the article that led to the matter being discussed on radio, which provides some actual information and evidence:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48663833

Although there appears to have been some misinterpretation at some point because currently it's an inquiry into the issue, as opposed to any changes in sentencing guidelines or policy actually having been put into place as the OP somewhat suggests.

Edit: already posted, hadn't seen that, apologies.

arknor · 18 Jun 2019 at 14:27

children would be better living with a foster family or relative if the mother is a criminal committing crimes that warrant a prison sentence.

in my experience crime usually runs in the family, fathers a criminal , mothers a criminal, kids end up being criminals because the parents don't care and even sometimes encourage knowing kids cant get a prison sentence

The_Abyss · 18 Jun 2019 at 14:28

VincentHanna said:
@FoxEye Are you a father?

Or a mother?!

There's only one other option left - an outraged neither.

D.P. · 18 Jun 2019 at 14:49

Minstadave said:
Why does a right to family life only protect mothers from prison? Is a father not part of family life?

The discussion surroundings single parents, of which almost all are mothers, so that is only natural. I don't see that any changes would black and white only apply to mothers, I would assume a single father may well be able plea for an alternative to prison under the same circumstances.

Roar87 · 18 Jun 2019 at 14:50

VincentHanna said:
Can I assume the OP is talking about this?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48663833

Is terrible damage not done to everyone related to someone sent to prison? Why are women different from men who have children? The state isn't the one inflicting damage to children by imposing a prison sentence, women committing crimes are doing that damage when they force the state to imprison them by not living within the laws.

Freakbro · 18 Jun 2019 at 14:56

Roar87 said:
Why are women different from men who have children?

The point is single parent families, and if single fathers were treated differently than single mothers, then yes then I would be genuinely outraged. But since this is about child welfare, I would expect they would treated the same since the focus is on the child not the parent.

wesimmo · 18 Jun 2019 at 14:58

Roar87 said:
Is terrible damage not done to everyone related to someone sent to prison? Why are women different from men who have children? The state isn't the one inflicting damage to children by imposing a prison sentence, women committing crimes are doing that damage when they force the state to imprison them by not living within the laws.

Yes but you also balance that with this from the article.

Women are more likely to be imprisoned for non-violent offences and more likely to receive short sentences of 6 months or less.

Women are already treated differently.

If every time someone starts looking into something the frothers are going to froth then how do you expect things to change for the better?

cheesyboy · 18 Jun 2019 at 15:07

FoxEye said:
What I don't understand is how this is happening when we ostensibly have a conservative government in power.

Because conservatives (small 'c') believe in traditional family roles. Woman's role is parenting.

If you don't dig that, then you're a liberal. Welcome to the club!

Nasher · 18 Jun 2019 at 20:03

But most single parents ARE women?

The_Abyss · 18 Jun 2019 at 20:21

Nasher said:
But most single parents ARE women?

Nonsense. Just think about what you’ve written.

There are around just as many single parents who are men. I imagine that you’re talking about custody or the primary carer, not a single parent.

Ahleckz · 19 Jun 2019 at 00:37

The_Abyss said:
Nonsense. Just think about what you’ve written.

There are around just as many single parents who are men. I imagine that you’re talking about custody or the primary carer, not a single parent.

What a stupid comment. Just because you 'fathered' someone, that is - provided the genetic material doesn't mean that you're the parent.

Sperm Donor ≠ Parent

FoxEye · 19 Jun 2019 at 00:58

The term "single parent" is well-understood, and implies custody of the child. It's a bit silly to argue that that isn't the case.

FoxEye · 19 Jun 2019 at 01:10

wesimmo said:
Yes but you also balance that with this from the article.

Women are more likely to be imprisoned for non-violent offences and more likely to receive short sentences of 6 months or less.

Click to expand...

Women are already treated differently.

If every time someone starts looking into something the frothers are going to froth then how do you expect things to change for the better?

I'm not sure that quote is highlighting existing differences in sentencing... but rather different types of crimes being committed between the sexes.

I don't think it means that

Women are more likely to be imprisoned for non-violent offences

Instead that

Women are more likely to be imprisoned for non-violent offences

And that the sentences are lower on average because non-violent crimes typically have lower sentencing guidelines.

No doubt (as I said in the OP) women and men are treated differently, but this seems to an attempt to entrench in law the giving of more lenient sentences to women with children.

Lopéz · 19 Jun 2019 at 06:00

The_Abyss said:
Nonsense. Just think about what you’ve written.

There are around just as many single parents who are men. I imagine that you’re talking about custody or the primary carer, not a single parent.

The term "Single Parent" is not commonly used to describe someone who fathered/gave birth to a child but is not their primary carer, so YOU think about what you've written

Hades · 19 Jun 2019 at 08:00

If my wife went to prison then she might lose her job. I would continue to look after the kids by frequently working from home and pay all the bills as I am the greater wage earner. The kids would be looked after and have a roof over their heads.

If I went to prison then I would 100% lose my job, we would probably lose the house as my wife couldn't get anywhere near paying the bills. She can't work from home and so couldn't look after the kids as well as I could. Thr kids lives would be irreparably affected.

But she would get a lenient sentence... because mother?