human teleportation

Tefal · 2 Oct 2010 at 01:49

Superewza said:
That's essentially what teleportation is, since you can't create or destroy matter you transfer the properties of one group of atoms into another group of atoms and then you've moved without actually moving.

You can turn matter into energy though and transmit it, which is what teleportation generally refers to.

otherwise you've merely copied an object at huge cost and energy expense.

mrk · 2 Oct 2010 at 01:50

Not with our current Physics models, probably!

The shooting the replica question though is interesting, it would have to be one of two ways:

1: The replica would have to be entangled with the original in such a way that every brain function, every memory and everything everywhere on that person is in perfect sync with the clone so when the original is shot the replica would re-animate to how the original was at the point of being shot

2: The replica only holds the info up to the point of being created from the original so would not recall being shot, for example.

This kind of thing is at a quantum level as well no? Since brain functions are electric?

Lightnix · 2 Oct 2010 at 01:54

Possibly. I think the phrase 'science knows it doesn't know everything, otherwise it would stop' is apt here.

wannabedamned · 2 Oct 2010 at 02:12

Jokester said:
Though it might be physically possible, the idea that your body is effectively destroyed and then a copy made elsewhere doesn't sound too appealing.

This is exactly my thoughts and its not appealing in the lightest. Destroying and recreating, isnt teleporting. Not a fan atall, I'll pass!

SiriusB · 2 Oct 2010 at 02:25

It will be with artificial wormholes if we ever manage it.

Spektor · 2 Oct 2010 at 02:37

Should there be some kind of mass linked teleportation network and one day that network should experience a glitch and say not only would Kate Beckinsale's teleported replica be diverted to my homes teleporter but also have been tragically lobotomized then I....

*starts fapping*

Badgi · 2 Oct 2010 at 09:42

I think teleportation on the a living being is just far to risky.

I don't like the replication idea, that's just weird, and as for the wormhole theory, surely creating a wormhole big enough to teleport someone would carry the risk of mass destruction......

bloodiedathame · 2 Oct 2010 at 10:34

It will happen, if humankind survives long enough...

bhavv · 2 Oct 2010 at 10:42

Why not?

Human teleportation is just as likely as being possible as there being a God, so how come 90% of people cant believe in human teleportation too????

I HAVE FAITH!!!! I will be teleportable soon.

Castiel · 2 Oct 2010 at 10:50

bhavv said:
Why not?

Human teleportation is just as likely as being possible as there being a God, so how come 90% of people cant believe in human teleportation too????

I HAVE FAITH!!!! I will be teleportable soon.

Teleportation is a science based assertion, God is a philosophical one. So they are not comparable in the way you suggest.

But if, as you say you have Faith in teleporation, stand in front of a highspeed train and teleport at the last moment to illustrate your Faith...

bhavv · 2 Oct 2010 at 11:08

Castiel said:
Teleportation is a science based assertion, God is a philosophical one. So they are not comparable in the way you suggest.

But if, as you say you have Faith in teleporation, stand in front of a highspeed train and teleport at the last moment to illustrate your Faith...

That was sarcasm in case you didnt realise, but since you said what you did, why dont people who believe in God do that instead if they have the faith that their God will save them?

And it seems that you didnt realise, but teleportation is both a 'science FICTION', and also a philosophical idea:

Literature and philosophy

Apport, an earlier word used to describe transference of an article from one place to another.
Kefitzat Haderech, Hebrew notion of supernatural transportation.
Tay al-Ard, the concept of Teleportation in Islamic philosophy.

So yes, my comparison of God and Teleoportation was completely valid, but I'm sure that you will continue to disagree.

This is actually very interesting:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tay_al-Ard

Tayy al-Arḍ (Arabic: طيّ الأرض‎ "folding up of the earth") is the name for thaumaturgical teleportation in the mystical form of Islamic religious and philosophical tradition. The concept has been expressed as "traversing the earth without moving"; some have termed it "moving by the earth being displaced under one's feet". It is a concept widely familiar to the Sunnis, Shī‘īs and Sufis, each group having a different interpretation on it.

So you have been corrected, yes teleportation is also a philosophical, and arguably, a religious idea as well as a science fiction one.

Castiel · 2 Oct 2010 at 11:44

bhavv said:
That was sarcasm in case you didnt realise, but since you said what you did, why dont people who believe in God do that instead if they have the faith that their God will save them?

And it seems that you didnt realise, but teleportation is both a 'science FICTION', and also a philosophical idea:

Teleportation is a Science FACT.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/3811785.stm

http://www.research.ibm.com/quantuminfo/teleportation/

bhavv said:
So yes, my comparison of God and Teleportation was completely valid, but I'm sure that you will continue to disagree.

The OP and the proceeding thread was contextually referring to the scientific form of tele-transportation and not the mystical or paranormal interpretation of the word.

In short, the discussion was about artificial transportation from one place to another and not a mystical psychic transference from one place to another.

While similar in their definition, philosophically they are completely separate and should be treated as such.

In short, your attempt to turn this thread into another attack on Islam is transparent and inane.

bhavv · 2 Oct 2010 at 11:53

I didnt intend to turn this thread into an attack on anything, I simply comapared and view teleportation to be 'as likely' as God. It was entirely your choice to go off on a tangent from there, not mine.

Unless there is any evidence either way, my opinion wont change.

Human Teleportation is also a Religious based philosophy as well as science fiction, it is NOT a scientific fact of any kind.

The idea of human teleportation is just as crazy, illogical and lunatic to me.

Castiel said:
Teleportation is a Science FACT.

No, not really. 'HUMAN' teleportation is not a Science fact. It is science fiction.

When physicists talk about "teleportation", they are describing the transfer of "quantum states" between separate atoms.

"quantum states" between separate atoms =/= Human teleportation. Try and get your 'facts' right.

Castiel said:
The OP and the proceeding thread was contextually referring to the scientific form of tele-transportation and not the mystical or paranormal interpretation of the word.

Nope, HUMAN teleportation is entirely mythical and paranormal.

'Human Teleportation - Will it ever happen?' I dont see anything referring to the scientific form of Quantum teleportation in either the thread title or OP.

Castiel said:
In short, your attempt to turn this thread into another attack on Islam is transparent and inane.

No, actually I were just proving to you that 'HUMAN' transportation is in fact a religious philosophy that is also a part of Islam, as well as science fiction. Your conclusions are completely illogical and inane, as are most of your posts.

LordSplodge · 2 Oct 2010 at 12:05

Robosapien said:
Yeah, but what about the whole quantum entanglement thing with the hidden variable? Isn't that essentially a violation of Heisenberg's Uncertainty Princple?

Incidentally, I always loved this joke:
Heisenberg is driving along in his car and gets stopped by the police.
Policeman asks 'Do you know how fast you were going?'
Heisenberg replies 'Nope, but I know where I am.'

Stitches.

Only works on the quantum level and because you know the position of both particles and not speed you aren't violating the uncertainty principle. It does however violate relativity because technically they are travelling faster than light.

Castiel · 2 Oct 2010 at 12:11

bhavv said:
I didnt intend to turn this thread into an attack on anything, I simply comapared and view teleportation to be 'as likely' as God. It was entirely your choice to go off on a tangent from there, not mine.

You mentioned God, not I. I merely pointed out that the two are not really comparable. They are not.

bhavv said:
Unless there is any evidence either way, my opinion wont change.

The idea of human teleportation is just as crazy, illogical and lunatic to me.

Quite narrow-minded really aren't you. While I neither believe in God, or do I believe we will be able to transport a human being in their entirety I do not find either crazy or lunacy (which are essentially the same thing anyway)

bhavv said:
No, not really. 'HUMAN' teleportation is not a Science fact. It is science fiction.

Accepted, although the evidence might suggest that recreating an exact anatomical replica in another location is doable eventually. I think however that the transference of the Self or personality of a person is somewhat more esoteric.

bhavv said:
"quantum states" between separate atoms =/= Human teleportation. Try and get your 'facts' right.

Which is why I said Teleportation, without the prefix Human. Like I said above it isn't difficult to extrapolate the creation of replicated atoms from the research however and thus to replication of a Human, given the concerns I voiced above of course.

bhavv · 2 Oct 2010 at 12:13

Castiel said:
You mentioned God, not I. I merely pointed out that the two are not really comparable. They are not.

They are comparable as unproven beliefs and theories.

Castiel said:
Which is why I said Teleportation, without the prefix Human.

Why dont you read the thread title next time? This thread is about human, not scientific quantum teleportation as you think it is.

Castiel · 2 Oct 2010 at 12:17

bhavv said:
They are comparable as unproven beliefs and theories.

I accept that you are of that opinion, I disagree however, due to the research into teleportation (quantum or otherwise).

There are many unproven theories in science and they are not readily comparable to God or theological belief structures, but as it is your opinion I accept that at face value and leave it at that.

Castiel · 2 Oct 2010 at 12:18

bhavv said:
Why dont you read the thread title next time? This thread is about human, not scientific quantum teleportation as you think it is.

If you hadn't noticed the thread had moved on somewhat from just discussing Human teleportation in isolation.

bhavv · 2 Oct 2010 at 12:22

Castiel said:
I accept that you are of that opinion, I disagree however, due to the research into teleportation (quantum or otherwise).

The research you mention is still a completely different thing to Human teleportation, which you yet fail to understand.

It is the same thing as saying that research into octupus neurology is the same as research in human neurology, which it isnt. You are completely clueless at best if you think that there is anything scientific, or any kind of reasearch that has been done in the area of human teleportation.

For a theory of human teleportation, here is a simple one:

For a person to be transported, a machine would have to be built that can pinpoint and analyze all of the .... atoms that make up the human body. That's more than a trillion trillion atoms. This machine would then have to send this information to another location, where the person's body would be reconstructed with exact precision. Molecules couldn't be even a millimeter out of place, lest the person arrive with some severe neurological or physiological defect.

Unlike what you want to believe, there is no research at all that has been carried out to try to prove anything about human teleportation, and the actual idea / theory of it is completely ridiculous in the real scientific world.

Castiel said:
If you hadn't noticed the thread had moved on somewhat from just discussing Human teleportation in isolation.

No actually it didnt. Only YOU did because you felt like going offtopic, and because you dont seem to understand the difference between 'human teleportation' and 'quantum teleportation'.

Castiel · 2 Oct 2010 at 12:34

bhavv said:
The research you mention is still a completely different thing to Human teleportation, which you yet fail to understand.

It is the same thing as saying that research into octupus neurology is the same as research in human neurology, which it isnt. You are completely clueless at best if you think that there is anything scientific, or any kind of reasearch that has been done in the area of human teleportation.

For a theory of human teleportation, here is a simple one:

Unlike what you want to believe, there is no research at all that has been carried out to try to prove anything about human teleportation.

Give over, I have already said this, which is why I said extrapolate....

It is not difficult, given enough time and scientific advancement to discuss some form of human teleportation given an extrapolation of quantum teleportation to the Macro-level.

As Charles H Bennett of the IBM research centre said:

"Exact teleportation was thought to be impossible," Charles H. Bennett of IBM Research, part of the team that first discovered "quantum teleportation,"

"Now, however, it is known to be possible."

So while there is no current research (I didn't say there was, you made that up), it is entirely possible, at least to some scientists in the field.

Charles Bennett believes that, in principle at least, it is perfectly feasible to teleport humans without violating any of the fundamental laws of physics. Not only that, but, also in principle, it could be done without resorting to the complexities of quantum entanglement.

"Quantum entanglement is valuable in transmitting particles such as atoms and photons where the most delicate properties are significant and where simple approximation is not enough," he explains.

"Teleporting a person, on the other hand, would not require reproducing the quantum state anything like as exactly.

"Everything we know about biology and how molecules fit together to produce a living being, including the brain, indicates that creating some level of approximation would give you a real person who was a serviceable replica of the original in terms of looking the same and thinking the same thoughts, without necessarily being a perfect quantum replica.

"The teleported person would end up slightly different, but not in a biologically important way."

The implication of this is that you could scan a person using some advanced form of the technology used to perform MRI scans, and transmit that scanned information somewhere else -- using normal electrical or sound signals -- where it would then be reassembled into an approximation of the original.

"It's the same principle as a fax machine," says Bennett. "When you fax something what comes out the other end obviously looks like the original and contains the same information. It's not the same paper, however, or the same type of ink.

"It's the same, but not the same.

bhavv said:
No actually it didnt. Only YOU did because you felt like going offtopic, and because you dont seem to understand the difference between 'human teleportation' and 'quantum teleportation'.

The thread began discussing other forms of teleportation in reference to science from Post #13.

I understand the difference perfectly, in fact I pointed it out myself in Post #21.