Hungarian Grand Prix 2015, Hungaroring - Race 10/19

leaskovski said:
Wow, really? Well that is pretty shocking on Hondas behalf.
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Is it ?

Surely this is a function of the rules governing engine changes rather than any lack of progress on Hondas part ? Granted the Honda unit doesnt seem to cut the mustard, but the fact they are still running the same power as they were at Oz doesn't seem to be Honda's fault to me.
 
They haven't "gained" power. but it was turned down at the start of the year and has been turned up to the max that the current engine will allow. So there has been an increase.
 
Flibster said:
I fully expect parts of the engine to reach 130 feet in altitude.
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I laughed. :D

Who knows where they'll get to. At this point at the start of the year I thought the pace would be getting on for challenging for regular points and even podiums (Hungary's relatively near miss really doesn't count), but they're still two seconds off the pace on a track that suits them.

If it's true that Honda will spend tokens in the coming races then it's promising, but I could swear they spent tokens back in Austria too, which would mean it's somewhat less exciting. If they do have a 120hp deficit to make up, then they're not going to get there by merely spending tokens changing a couple of parts - 120hp is a chasm away.

I think everyone wants McLaren to be back up there, with two world champions actually given the machinery they deserve, to at least have a shot to mix it up. It looks like 2016 will be too soon and who knows what will happen in 2017. I was full of hope and even expectation that they'd get there, but it does look like they came too soon.
 
PinkFloyd said:
To be fair, the McLaren looked to be struggling less in a straight line down the main straight than it had been earlier in the year, they do seem to slowly be making headway!
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Not really, in Canada Alonso was eating alive time and time again except he made life difficult for Vettel, for like 2 laps. Why, probably because if you really want to you can harvest power for 5 laps and deploy it all on one lap. I wouldn't remotely put it past ALonso to decide to attempt to put up a fight with Vettel, he didn't put up nearly as much fight against multiple other slower cars. I'm not knocking Alonso either. If you are going to fight one car every 5-10 laps with a bit of power, I'd chose Hamilton or Vettel as well.

Here, the main straight is shorter than anywhere else and the other straights aren't comparable to most tracks, even so plenty of cars breezed by the Mclarens.

this_is_gav said:
I laughed. :D

Who knows where they'll get to. At this point at the start of the year I thought the pace would be getting on for challenging for regular points and even podiums (Hungary's relatively near miss really doesn't count), but they're still two seconds off the pace on a track that suits them.

If it's true that Honda will spend tokens in the coming races then it's promising, but I could swear they spent tokens back in Austria too, which would mean it's somewhat less exciting. If they do have a 120hp deficit to make up, then they're not going to get there by merely spending tokens changing a couple of parts - 120hp is a chasm away.

I think everyone wants McLaren to be back up there, with two world champions actually given the machinery they deserve, to at least have a shot to mix it up. It looks like 2016 will be too soon and who knows what will happen in 2017. I was full of hope and even expectation that they'd get there, but it does look like they came too soon.
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http://en.f1i.com/news/20345-honda-ran-with-no-limitations-in-hungary.html


According to Honda, the engine ran full 100% ERS modes and they've supposedly been at full ICE power for a while.

Do people remember all year Sky, most pundits and Honda/Mclaren themselves pushing the idea that this engine was extremely aggressive, extremely high power, it just didn't have the reliability so when reliability was sorted it would be competitive? I kept saying and feeling that a fast but unreliable engine would as in multiple previous seasons in F1, see a car looking at competing for pole positions but failing 10 laps into races. If it was fast it would have shown it, at one test at least and let an engine blow. The fact that we never saw ANY speed at any stage always suggested this was PR nonsense.

Well supposedly at a low power track, where they had full ERS< good harvesting(as far as they believe) and an unlimited engine... they qualified 15th/16th, sucked in the race and only got a 5th place due to like 80% of the grid being in brain fart mode. Mclaren weren't at all faster here even though we were told repeatedly that even with the same engine power they'd be comparatively closer here due to the track style suiting their car.

So the concept of this base engine being epic and just needing to be unlocked is.... bull. Arai is happy with the performance, apparently knowing nothing about F1 and thinking they achieved 5th place by beating others for performance rather than other drivers dropping back through punctures, pitstops and penalties.

103 seconds behind Vettel before the safety car 60% into the race.

If I was at Honda, I wouldn't be even making statements about the engine being unlimited or that it was a good race. After bold bold promises all year, particularly around what THIS engine could do when run at maximum, being 100 seconds down after 41 laps is pathetic.
 
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drunkenmaster said:
Not really, in Canada Alonso was eating alive time and time again except he made life difficult for Vettel, for like 2 laps. Why, probably because if you really want to you can harvest power for 5 laps and deploy it all on one lap. I wouldn't remotely put it past ALonso to decide to attempt to put up a fight with Vettel, he didn't put up nearly as much fight against multiple other slower cars. I'm not knocking Alonso either. If you are going to fight one car every 5-10 laps with a bit of power, I'd chose Hamilton or Vettel as well.

Here, the main straight is shorter than anywhere else and the other straights aren't comparable to most tracks, even so plenty of cars breezed by the Mclarens.

http://en.f1i.com/news/20345-honda-ran-with-no-limitations-in-hungary.html


According to Honda, the engine ran full 100% ERS modes and they've supposedly been at full ICE power for a while.

Do people remember all year Sky, most pundits and Honda/Mclaren themselves pushing the idea that this engine was extremely aggressive, extremely high power, it just didn't have the reliability so when reliability was sorted it would be competitive? I kept saying and feeling that a fast but unreliable engine would as in multiple previous seasons in F1, see a car looking at competing for pole positions but failing 10 laps into races. If it was fast it would have shown it, at one test at least and let an engine blow. The fact that we never saw ANY speed at any stage always suggested this was PR nonsense.

Well supposedly at a low power track, where they had full ERS< good harvesting(as far as they believe) and an unlimited engine... they qualified 15th/16th, sucked in the race and only got a 5th place due to like 80% of the grid being in brain fart mode. Mclaren weren't at all faster here even though we were told repeatedly that even with the same engine power they'd be comparatively closer here due to the track style suiting their car.

So the concept of this base engine being epic and just needing to be unlocked is.... bull. Arai is happy with the performance, apparently knowing nothing about F1 and thinking they achieved 5th place by beating others for performance rather than other drivers dropping back through punctures, pitstops and penalties.

103 seconds behind Vettel before the safety car 60% into the race.

If I was at Honda, I wouldn't be even making statements about the engine being unlimited or that it was a good race. After bold bold promises all year, particularly around what THIS engine could do when run at maximum, being 100 seconds down after 41 laps is pathetic.
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Bloody hell, did Ron Dennis shag your missus or something?

At least the car ran reliably all race, both cars, no less. *




* I suppose you'll find an arguement to counter that statement now.
 
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smr said:


Bloody hell, did Ron Dennis shag your missus or something?

At least the car ran reliably all race, both cars, no less. *

* I suppose you'll find an arguement to counter that statement now.
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Mclaren fan boy dismisses 2 second per lap deficit to the front along with Honda saying the engine was running unlimited because Dennis must have shagged my missus. Well done, pretty much proving you don't have a sensible rebuttal for a pretty simple post. I wasn't angry, I didn't use bad words, I was commenting on what is pretty much the biggest story of Mclaren's season. They've spent pretty much since November saying they have an awesome engine that will be competitive. They've finally announced a race where they didn't hold the engine back(after the race) and they were over 2 seconds off the pace but I have to be angry or hate Ron Dennis to comment on it?

As for the rest, what argument can I possibly use to counter the fact that they managed between them to get one car to finish two races in a row.....
hmmm, Marussia/Manor? Extremely reliable, way way off the pace. Is that cause for optimism now. Spending 5 times as much(conservatively) as Manor to become the 3rd slowest car that can finish races, well done, what an achievement. Hmm, should add they spend more than FI, TR, Williams, Lotus as well. They've as yet come no where near achieving Marussia level of reliability, if they don't finish the next three then it's meaningless. As Honda/Mclaren wouldn't stop telling everyone, Hungary isn't a power track, unfortunately they also kept saying how they'd be comparatively stronger here because of those factors. So didn't kill engines on a non power track, not particularly impressive, and were over 2 seconds off the pace at a track they promised to be stronger at than any other race left in the season, ouch...... but Alonso finished two races in a row so epic achievement, lolololololol.
 
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drunkenmaster said:
Mclaren fan boy dismisses 2 second per lap deficit to the front along with Honda saying the engine was running unlimited because Dennis must have shagged my missus. Well done, pretty much proving you don't have a sensible rebuttal for a pretty simple post. I wasn't angry, I didn't use bad words, I was commenting on what is pretty much the biggest story of Mclaren's season. They've spent pretty much since November saying they have an awesome engine that will be competitive. They've finally announced a race where they didn't hold the engine back(after the race) and they were over 2 seconds off the pace but I have to be angry or hate Ron Dennis to comment on it?

As for the rest, what argument can I possibly use to counter the fact that they managed between them to get one car to finish two races in a row.....
hmmm, Marussia/Manor? Extremely reliable, way way off the pace. Is that cause for optimism now. Spending 5 times as much(conservatively) as Manor to become the 3rd slowest car that can finish races, well done, what an achievement. Hmm, should add they spend more than FI, TR, Williams, Lotus as well. They've as yet come no where near achieving Marussia level of reliability, if they don't finish the next three then it's meaningless. As Honda/Mclaren wouldn't stop telling everyone, Hungary isn't a power track, unfortunately they also kept saying how they'd be comparatively stronger here because of those factors. So didn't kill engines on a non power track, not particularly impressive, and were over 2 seconds off the pace at a track they promised to be stronger at than any other race left in the season, ouch...... but Alonso finished two races in a row so epic achievement, lolololololol.
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Yeah you're right, you sound really calm.
 
Having the ERS working properly is a good start, but saying that is all they have when the ICE + Turbo make up the vast majority of power is a bit short sighted.
 
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