I don't understand the point of 4k

It's an inherent flaw... don't look too hard for it... if you don't notice it, enjoy it... once you see it, you won't unsee it.

Been looking quite hard for it tbh. :) I cannot see anything any different. My Blu-Ray player is fairly decent and I'm not seeing anything different. I have tried quiet a few films now inc Iron Man 3 which has fast movement, Avatar and nothing.

Having to sit through all the ruddy menus and adverts everytime is actually making me like my Media PC even more tbh.... :D
 
back on topic. 4k currently IMO is pointless. very very limited content. if you can afford a top 4k set then go for it but imo you would be better off going 1080P oled then waiting for 4k to mature.

I honestly would say I prefer my 1080 VA screen over the OLED. For me there was just something really off with the motion on the OLED. Unless this has been fixed in an update since I had mine.

I feel VA screens offer decent black levels and nice un stuttery motion.
 
Slightly off topic but with regards to streaming and physical media I find both fairly decent. I just wish streaming on services like Netflix would offer HD sound codecs.
 
The way I see it, 4K is great for screens and things you sit near to. But for the average consumer sitting several meters from the TV I don't see the point for the moment... in my opinion of course.
 
I've said that before on this forum and I'll repeat it again. Problem with UHD/4k is not only with lack of end user standard, and everyone pulling in their own direction and disinterest of manufacturers to devise supporting chipsets - the biggest problem is on content delivery end.

To have quality native 4k content sensibly materialise on your TVs and living rooms as the end consumer, the professional industry - from broadcaster to not yet existing disc manufacturer must have means and tools to take, operate and deliver from and to proper master media. And the trouble with UHD/4K is that the only viable close to lossless master delivery format at the moment is Apple ProRes. And ProRes is a bit of a problem. It's heavily licensed, which means that with few limited exceptions all your workflow from postproduction to playback can only happen in Apple environment and Apple in recent years dropped professional media industry like a ton of bricks. They literally decimated all native professional post production tools for media industry both in terms of hardware and software.

We are talking about completely throwing away everything and building completely new workflow from the ground up. This time there will be no VTRs in postproduction, no tapes for delivery to TV studios. You won't be able to store it uncompressed. You won't be able to send it via satellite uplink without massively compressing in lossy format. And yes, we have ProRes and it's good, but on the production level within stringent embrace of licensed environment everything related to ProRes is an issue - the tools, the old mov container, the bitrate and data size that needs to be written and read from a media without slowdowns plus there are no accelerations or third party chipsets involved. The few and inbetween portable media digital devices capable of playing back ProRes master at that resolution aren't really viable studio solutions, they might be good for videographer but do not really cater for something that needs to carry multitrack audio, feature dolby etc. That makes everything - from digitising celluloid through delivering masters shot and post produced natively in 4k to broadcaster to go on air all the way to capturing 4k footage from cameras and delivering it end to end in broadcast quality 4k between field/van and a broadcast studio - hard to do without cheating, generation loss and dropping quality.

At the last broadcast exhibition in Amsterdam the most prevailing UHD/4K solutions from engine room hardware perspective were devices to upscale the existing content and to deliver 4k-ish stuff from lossy media. And when I say lossy media, I literally mean barely comparable to the 'scene' level HEVC type of stuff instead of 4:4:4 or even 4:2:2 master - something that starts its like as compressed and only gets recompressed again and again. This is what the professional equipment industry came up with as a solution to growing demand for 4K delivery. To effectively fake the 4k on the ground level from the word "go".

So when you drool at the demo of Eutelsat's 4K1 channel, in lush 10bit h265 at 50fps running from the demo screen at John Lewis, just remember that this is not the UHD you are going to be watching for the rest of this decade. It's most likely not even the end user codec you will be watching as UHD at the end of this decade. This consumer revolution is even more disjointed than the two most recent digital switches. This consumer revolution even left professional hardware manufacturers and media providers perplexed as to how to accommodate it.
 
Claiming that comments that you don't like, are slanderous on the virtue of you disliking them is a very strong suggestion that you are being quite dramatic, and taking this overly seriously.

Cheers spoffle, I think I get your point. Though by making it I think you are taking the thread a little too serious :)
 
Still waiting for full 1080p as a broadcast standard :rolleyes::(

You do realise there is next to no diffrence between 1080i and 1080p, it's all about the bitrate! 1080i/p both transmitted at 7-10Mbps will look exactly the same, the reason everyone goes on about 1080p is because that's what bluray is shown in but 95% of blurays bitrates are around the 22Mbps mark, transmit sky and on demand at 22Mbps an there would be no need for your bluray collection :D
 
^^Great! What time is Lars And The Real Girl playing on demand?...

Its not available on demand?... Oh?... I guess I'll just watch my Blu-ray copy then... ;)
 
You do realise there is next to no diffrence between 1080i and 1080p, it's all about the bitrate! 1080i/p both transmitted at 7-10Mbps will look exactly the same, the reason everyone goes on about 1080p is because that's what bluray is shown in but 95% of blurays bitrates are around the 22Mbps mark, transmit sky and on demand at 22Mbps an there would be no need for your bluray collection :D
The bit rates may be similar but there is a world of difference between them in terms of acquisition. There's also some problems introduced at the broadcast layer when either introducing additional frames- or speeding up the frame rate- in the progressive to interlaced conversion process.
 
You do realise there is next to no diffrence between 1080i and 1080p,

Of course there is a difference. Especially in the world of lossy codecs. Play any fast moving scene in 1080p and 1080i side by side, tell me you don't see a difference.
 
You do realise there is next to no diffrence between 1080i and 1080p, it's all about the bitrate! 1080i/p both transmitted at 7-10Mbps will look exactly the same, the reason everyone goes on about 1080p is because that's what bluray is shown in but 95% of blurays bitrates are around the 22Mbps mark, transmit sky and on demand at 22Mbps an there would be no need for your bluray collection :D

http://www.digitaltrends.com/home-theater/1080p-vs-1080i-whats-the-difference/
 
Of course there is a difference. Especially in the world of lossy codecs. Play any fast moving scene in 1080p and 1080i side by side, tell me you don't see a difference.

Read my whole post, if you can see the difference between a 22mbps bitrate 1080i and 1080p transmission you have the best eyes known to mankind, prime example is BBC1Hd on freesat-free view it is transmitted in 1080p 7-9Mbps and 7-9mbps on sky, tell me you can see the difference between the 2 I very much doubt it.
 
Read my whole post, if you can see the difference between a 22mbps bitrate 1080i and 1080p transmission you have the best eyes known to mankind

You definitely can. If the stream is truly interlaced, and not just progressive stream with interlaced header in container you can easily tell the difference even on a ProRes master.

prime example is BBC1Hd on freesat-free view it is transmitted in 1080p 7-9Mbps and 7-9mbps on sky, tell me you can see the difference between the 2 I very much doubt it.

As far as I know nothing with moving pictures is broadcasted for public viewing in UK as 1080p. BBC tested auto switching delivery on Freesat transponders for Olympic Games between 2011 and 2012 and some events (opening and closing ceremony?) were indeed shown as high bitrate 1080p with clean secondary audio track almost like feed, but I would be very surprised if BBC One HD was actually uplinked as 1080p right now. Your box is probably misreading stream for MHEG services on the channel in info readout.
 
My freeview TV often reports 1080p (and 1080i), from the BBC faq:
The BBC's HD channels currently transmit programmes using the 1080/50i standard and 1080/25p depending on how the content is captured.
 
My freeview TV often reports 1080p (and 1080i), from the BBC faq:
The BBC's HD channels currently transmit programmes using the 1080/50i standard and 1080/25p depending on how the content is captured.
BIB That's the crux of it.

From a broadcast bandwidth perspective 1080i/50 and 1080p/25 both require the same average bitrate, but splitting a signal down in to two interlaced halves reduces the bandwidth requirement at any given moment in time. In essence, splitting the cargo in half by using interlacing means it will go down a tunnel half the width of the full load.

Presuming that the source signal started off as progressive and then went through a benign interlace-deinterlace process then there'd be no difference. However, capturing some footage using an interlaced camera means there's always going to be some interlaced artefacts such as motion between the odd and even fields. There's no way that that can be undone because it's in the source signal.
 
Having owned a 4k Panasonic 65" screen since the weekend I have to say so far I am far from overwhelmed. I recall being in a Currys store and being amazed by a 4K demo of a city panoramic, you could see minute detail right back into the horizon. I have sampled a number of 4K cinema trailers and clips but none come close to that, I would struggle to tell the difference between 4K and 1080P in many cases. Pixellation, grain effect on dark/shadow scenes and worst of all sample files that judder and breakup when the scene gets busy are what i have experienced so far. Perhaps I was expecting too much but all the talk of there being 4x the visible detail of 1080P so far to me feels wide of the reality.
 
Sounds like you have a poor video source and/or playback device...

You can match the quality you saw in the shop - but it requires decent source files & playback...
 
Having owned a 4k Panasonic 65" screen since the weekend I have to say so far I am far from overwhelmed. I recall being in a Currys store and being amazed by a 4K demo of a city panoramic, you could see minute detail right back into the horizon. I have sampled a number of 4K cinema trailers and clips but none come close to that, I would struggle to tell the difference between 4K and 1080P in many cases. Pixellation, grain effect on dark/shadow scenes and worst of all sample files that judder and breakup when the scene gets busy are what i have experienced so far. Perhaps I was expecting too much but all the talk of there being 4x the visible detail of 1080P so far to me feels wide of the reality.

Sounds like you have a poor video source and/or playback device...

You can match the quality you saw in the shop - but it requires decent source files & playback...

I have a 49" LG 4K LED TV (can't remember model) and even when I'm using Netflix for 4K it still looks 1080p to me too. Mine's nearly a year old now so maybe not one of the newer 4K panels and 49" probably too small to be of any real benefit but TV is only used in bedroom for now till I get my own place in the summer. Could broadband speeds be an issue? With Prime it actually tells you if it's running at 1080p or not, Netflix doesn't seem to have such an option. Have a cheapish 4K HDMI cable I bought from the auction place but is the right standard from what I know. I stream everything via wireless, will ethernet be a better option?
 
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