I Got Angry Yesterday

theleg · 2 May 2006 at 12:30

Vanilla said:
The dictionary definition of anti-semitism is the prejudice or hostility against Jews.

The Jewish people are not a race, just like the Catholic people are not. Being Jewish is not a race because Jews do not share one common ancestry or biological distinction. People of many different races have become Jewish people over the years.

Being Jewish means you are a part of a religious movement just like being Catholic or Muslim.

Im sure you think youre being clever but theres an awful lot more to it...You cant simplify such things to the level of a childs thinking as you are trying to do..

Anti semitism is tied into race whether you want to accept it or not...Jews have always been seen as a distinctive racial group, at least a portion of them have..Especially in the UK. Whether its actually the case is neither here nor there.

Youre right about the dirty thing, ive never heard that as a racial thing...Just as an precursor to the racial insult.

theleg · 2 May 2006 at 12:32

Spawn said:
How utterly pathetic and sad,

Spawn said:
i wish someone would have done that for me while i was growing up

Erm....

Whats this place coming to eh??...honestly...the jewish kid needs to grow some tougher skin and get on with it...hell when i was young and defenceless i had to put with a lot of racist abuse. .

You need to get over your jew issues mate...Im pretty sure the OP didnt do this because he felt bad about what hitler did, and id imagine he woulda done the same thing if it was a little arab boy...

and racist abuse is one thing...racist abuse in public and everyone else agreeing with it is something else.

Treefrog · 2 May 2006 at 12:38

jezsoup said:
Fair enough, I can't recall seeing that episode so ill take your word for it. Im just a bit wary when peopel start "finding" hidden things etc etc often when you look for something you will find it wether its there or not!

Understandable. It was a fairly blatant comment though, and of course she hadn't actually said anything racist.

Nice to see someone using "wary" when they mean it instead of "weary" btw

Vanilla · 2 May 2006 at 12:42

Balddog said:
Im sure you think youre being clever but theres an awful lot more to it...You cant simplify such things to the level of a childs thinking as you are trying to do..

Anti semitism is tied into race whether you want to accept it or not...Jews have always been seen as a distinctive racial group, at least a portion of them have..Especially in the UK. Whether its actually the case is neither here nor there.

Youre right about the dirty thing, ive never heard that as a racial thing...Just as an precursor to the racial insult.

Well, I only have my opinion, i've justified in this thread why against people making bland statement like 'it's discrimination so it's racism'. You have racism or you have anti-semitism.

Jews in the UK don't, as far as I know, consider them to be a distinct racial group. That's experience from working in Golders Green for part of my life. They consider themselves to be a religious movement.

Being Jewish is not a race because Jews do not share one common ancestry or biological distinction. What does a Jewish person looks like? What is their skin colour? You can't tell. For all we know the kids the OP mentioned are chinese. If you rememeber the last time someone tried to find that biological distinction based around nose size and hundreds of other biological similarities the nice Austrian chap tried to do something about it.

theleg · 2 May 2006 at 12:51

Vanilla said:
Well, I only have my opinion, i've justified in this thread why against people making bland statement like 'it's discrimination so it's racism'. You have racism or you have anti-semitism.

Jews in the UK don't, as far as I know, consider them to be a distinct racial group. That's experience from working in Golders Green for part of my life. They consider themselves to be a religious movement.

Being Jewish is not a race because Jews do not share one common ancestry or biological distinction. What does a Jewish person looks like? What is their skin colour? You can't tell. For all we know the kids the OP mentioned are chinese. If you rememeber the last time someone tried to find that biological distinction based around nose size and hundreds of other biological similarities the nice Austrian chap tried to do something about it.

What jews consider themselves doesnt matter :dunno:

Jews are both a religion and a race....Look into their history. Modern jews may well be from everywhere, but historically, they were a single race.

What does a jewish person look like? Well to an awful lot of people, they look like this.

http://ocuk.liquid2solid.net/balddog/jew-bwa-ha-ha.gif

oh and incidentally, thats the first image when you google image search for the word jew.

Dark complexion, big nose, the little hat etc etc etc. Say what you will, in the real world, stereotypes exist and they are more powerful than dictionary definitions.

FincH · 2 May 2006 at 12:57

Can't say I agree with racist stuff. I mean proper racist things, not just half hearted comments, but you and your mate acted in the wrong way.

Why didn't you just go up to the security gaurd straight off, or just ignore them. It sounds like when you did approach him it was in the wrong way and after your friend had hit one of the lads.

But no, firstly you start having a go at them yourselves and get abuse back, but who are you to tell them what's right and wrong. Yes, making 'racist' remarks isn't nice but they're not going to listen to you are they. They'll find out properly when they get done over for running their big mouths.

Then your friend goes and elbows one of them. Wtf? That's disgustng. He actualy went an elbowed some kid in the head? What a ****.

People are going to act like idiots, but you have to learn to ignore it. You can't go shouting off at people and lashing out just because they are out of order. Think you're the Police or something?

I wonder if it'd been a group of stacked blokes that'd said it, if you'd have told them what to do and gone and hit one of them.

Vanilla · 2 May 2006 at 13:00

How they see themselves is key.

How can a group of people who'se only common trait is the same religion, and have always been dispersed, be a race? Most Jews I know are actually offended at being called a race. They do not meet any of the criteria of being a race and that is the simple fact.

They always have been a religious movement and i've never met a jew who looks like the picture posted - that in itself is anti-semitism, the creation of those who have prejudice against Jews.

theleg · 2 May 2006 at 13:09

Vanilla said:
How they see themselves is key.

How can a group of people who'se only common trait is the same religion, and have always been dispersed, be a race? Most Jews I know are actually offended at being called a race. They do not meet any of the criteria of being a race and that is the simple fact.

They always have been a religious movement and i've never met a jew who looks like the picture posted - that in itself is anti-semitism, the creation of those who have prejudice against Jews.

You know traditionally, jews are all descended from one tribe right? It is only recently that people have started converting to judaism. The majority of jews descend from the Israelites, IE the hebrews, IE a distinct racial group.

Vanilla · 2 May 2006 at 13:13

Balddog said:
You know traditionally, jews are all descended from one tribe right? It is only recently that people have started converting to judaism. The majority of jews descend from the Israelites, IE the hebrews, IE a distinct racial group.

Yes, as did Christians - in fact they were also part formed from Israelites in exactly the same area thousands of years ago. The Jewish faith even further back.

theleg · 2 May 2006 at 13:16

Vanilla said:
Yes, as did Christians - in fact they were also part formed from Israelites in exactly the same area thousands of years ago. The Jewish faith even further back.

The obvious difference being that about two billion people became christians whereas the jewish tribes were persecuted for their entire history and nobody wanted to sign up...Therefore Jews are still, partly, a racial group whereas Christians are hugely diluted and thus cannot be considered.

Your own cited source of dictionary.com supports me :dunno:

dictionary.com said:
A member of the widely dispersed people originally descended from the ancient Hebrews and sharing an ethnic heritage based on Judaism.

Vanilla · 2 May 2006 at 13:19

Balddog said:
The obvious difference being that about two billion people became christians whereas the jewish tribes were persecuted for their entire history and nobody wanted to sign up...Therefore Jews are still, partly, a racial group whereas Christians are hugely diluted and thus cannot be considered.

Your own cited source of dictionary.com supports me :dunno:

In part yes, but the Jews have had the same amount of dispersal and the christians, they share no common physical or biological trait today - the same way the catholics and protestants don't.

It's just a wide range of people of all colours sharing a belief.

Treefrog · 2 May 2006 at 13:43

FincH said:
People are going to act like idiots, but you have to learn to ignore it.

Up to what level would you be prepared to ignore - name calling, a punch, one person getting a kicking off another two, a rape, a murder?

Ignoring a problem won't make it go away.

FincH · 2 May 2006 at 13:45

Treefrog said:
Up to what level would you be prepared to ignore - name calling, a punch, one person getting a kicking off another two, a rape, a murder?

Ignoring a problem won't make it go away.

I said idiots, not animals

nero120 · 2 May 2006 at 13:49

Good on you both I say. The reason this society has become so corrupted and decadent is because decent people stopped challenging wrong behaviour. Gutless people who stand aside and let it happen are as much to blame as the wrong-doers themselves, regardless of how much they try and codemn those who take a stand and defend what is right.

Good on your friend for elbowing that scumbag, and don't listen to anyone who says it was wrong. If they want to live in a society where they are at the mercy of bullies and scumbags then let em moan, but if you want to live in a society where people treat each other decently then act - just as you did.

You both deserve a pat on the back from any decent civilised citizen.

jezsoup · 2 May 2006 at 13:50

Treefrog said:
Up to what level would you be prepared to ignore - name calling, a punch, one person getting a kicking off another two, a rape, a murder?

Ignoring a problem won't make it go away.

So so true. A lot fof the problems we have in the UK are due to this blasé NIMBY attidue we have.

As I said before I dont condone violence at all but the op's friend was right to do soemthing about the mindless racism.

Treefrog · 2 May 2006 at 13:52

FincH said:
I said idiots, not animals

Nope, other pack animals are a lot better behaved. They fight for a place in the pecking order or for food, not for kicks; they look after the weak and the crippled, not victimise them.

So much for our moral high ground eh?

cleanbluesky · 2 May 2006 at 14:29

For those that think Panthro's friend did the right thing, what other non-violent social crimes should be punished by random strangers through violence?

What about litter?

Cueball · 2 May 2006 at 14:31

cleanbluesky said:
For those that think Panthro's friend did the right thing, what other non-violent social crimes should be punished by random strangers through violence?

What about litter?

DECAPITATION!

cleanbluesky · 2 May 2006 at 14:34

Cueball · 2 May 2006 at 14:36

Violence is never the best course of action, but sometimes, it's the only course of action.

What would you do, hypothetically speaking, if some random guy was racist towards one of your friends? Defend him, or do nothing?

I'd defend him. Not necessarily with violence, but hey - nobody's perfect.