I Got Angry Yesterday

[cleanbluesky]

Violence is never the best course of action, but sometimes, it's the only course of action.

What would you do, hypothetically speaking, if some random guy was racist towards one of your friends? Defend him, or do nothing?

I'd defend him. Not necessarily with violence, but hey - nobody's perfect.

I'm above arguing with the misguided. Violence is for self-defence only.

The reason that racism is bad for society is because it can lead to violence. Using violence to combat racism defeats the object.

 

[Cookie-Monster]

I agree,

Violence is only ever an acceptable course of action in self defence, Panthro's mate wasnt defending himself, he wasnt even defending the poor kid being abused, he was angered personally by the comments made by the racist and so went over and clocked him to make himself feel better.

It can be dressed up in the lofty goal of fighting racism or however you want to package it, but in the end the 'mate' elbowed the guy in the head not to defend anyone but because he wanted to.

 

[FincH]

Nope, other pack animals are a lot better behaved. They fight for a place in the pecking order or for food, not for kicks; they look after the weak and the crippled, not victimise them.

So much for our moral high ground eh?

Well hold on a second here. Calling a Jewish person a dirty Jew is a bit different to raping or murdering someone.

But what exactly are you going to do if you see someone getting stabbed to death or raped? Elbow them? Kick them in the face?

You should phone the Police, let them deal with it.

Now I agree, I hate this mamby pamby view some people have and in an ideal world it'd be nice for us all to play hero, but what I'm saying to what the thread starter did is that you shouldn't go around laying down you own law when you have no authority to.

You can't compare rape to what that lad said.

 

[Treefrog]

Well hold on a second here. Calling a Jewish person a dirty Jew is a bit different to raping or murdering someone.

Only in degree. They're all acts of aggression against another individual.

But what exactly are you going to do if you see someone getting stabbed to death or raped? Elbow them? Kick them in the face?

Yes, if it's a viable method of dealing with it.

You should phone the Police, let them deal with it.

I know I should, but would they get there in time to save someone's life or catch a rapist?

Now I agree, I hate this mamby pamby view some people have and in an ideal world it'd be nice for us all to play hero, but what I'm saying to what the thread starter did is that you shouldn't go around laying down you own law when you have no authority to.

Shouldn't - agreed. But do you have an effective alternative?
You can't compare rape to what that lad said.[/QUOTE]
I didn't. I gave a list of crimes escalating in seriousness and asked where you would draw the line.

 

[FincH]

Only in degree. They're all acts of aggression against another individual.

Yes, but they are on very different levels. And imo, a bad comparison.

Yes, if it's a viable method of dealing with it.

Perhaps, but you're not trained to deal with a rape or murder situation, so could make matetrs worse, or end up killed yourself.

I know I should, but would they get there in time to save someone's life or catch a rapist?

I agree. It would be nice to prevent these sitauations or help someone. But as said above, you may make things worse and get yourself involved or in trouble.

Shouldn't - agreed. But do you have an effective alternative?

Yes - in most cases, phone the Police, Ambulance, get a secuirty gaurd or bouncer. Someone who knows what they're doing.

I didn't. I gave a list of crimes escalating in seriousness and asked where you would draw the line.

Ok fair enough, but it's impossile to draw a line based just on what the crime is. Every situation is different and there could, in theory be things you could do to help in a stabbing etc that you couldn't in a rape.

 

[Treefrog]

Perhaps, but you're not trained to deal with a rape or murder situation, so could make matters worse, or end up killed yourself.

Difficult to see how any action would make it worse though.

I agree. It would be nice to prevent these situations or help someone. But as said above, you may make things worse and get yourself involved or in trouble.

Yep. I might. Or I might read in the paper the next day that some lass had been raped and murdered, and know that I walked on past and did nothing. We just have to make the best call we can in whatever circumstances we find ourselves, and deal with it.

Yes - in most cases, phone the Police, Ambulance, get a security guard or bouncer. Someone who knows what they're doing.

If available, then fair enough. But the security guard in the OP was worse than useless, and backed down when challenged.

Ok fair enough, but it's impossile to draw a line based just on what the crime is. Every situation is different and there could, in theory be things you could do to help in a stabbing etc that you couldn't in a rape.

I agree. As you say, every situation is different - I'm not advocating wholesale thuggery! Sometimes psychology works, sometimes calling for those paid to deal with it is better, and other times physical action is the most effective way to deal with a situation.

 

[Cueball]

Violence is only ever an acceptable course of action in self defence, Panthro's mate wasnt defending himself, he wasnt even defending the poor kid being abused, he was angered personally by the comments made by the racist and so went over and clocked him to make himself feel better.

He was upset and annoyed by the comments. He saw red and striked out. He's only human and made a mistake (the physical violence bit).

Just because someone deserves a kicking (in your opinion) doesn't mean it's right to give him a kicking ethically/lawfully/etc/whatever.

OMG!! Let's sue him for being human and taking offence at a racist slur! Let's sue him for doing what probably 50% of people would have done - strike out in anger!

 

[Kroegen]

I would have my trusty baseball bat to hand...........















I take no responsibility of actions carried out by reading my post.

 

[Cookie-Monster]

He was upset and annoyed by the comments. He saw red and striked out. He's only human and made a mistake (the physical violence bit).

Just because someone deserves a kicking (in your opinion) doesn't mean it's right to give him a kicking ethically/lawfully/etc/whatever.

OMG!! Let's sue him for being human and taking offence at a racist slur! Let's sue him for doing what probably 50% of people would have done - strike out in anger!

They refuse to believe they made a mistake and are trying to justify it by saying the oik in question deserved a kicking.

I never said the guy in question deserved a kicking, in fact quite the opposite. I'm not the one here who acted as judge jury and executioner in handing out justice.

i also think you are misguided in your belief that 50% of people would have committed assault because they took offence at the actions of some bigotted racist.

and the fact that he made a mistake doesnt make him any less responsible for his actions.

[sarcasm]"oh bother i saw red and shot my boss, oh well i didnt mean it, if i say sorry will you let me go"[/sarcasm]

 

[Richdog]

OMG!! Let's sue him for being human and taking offence at a racist slur! Let's sue him for doing what probably 50% of people would have done - strike out in anger!

lol... 50% of people would have walked up to the yob and struck him in the head in that situation? Riiiight.

 

[panthro]

Not saying that what the fella said was a nice thing because its not but to get elbowed by some chav who thinks hes the jewish saviour is a bit sad and pathetic.

Firstly, Im not a chav, my friend is not a chav, you dont know him so dont label him.

Secondly,

Anyways seems like a lot of people still feel sorry for the jews and what happened to them many yrs ago at the hands of Hitler...why in gods name are we still treading on egg shells with the jews when it comes to them??..

it sounds like you are some sort of holocaust denier with a comment like that. I wont be taking posts from you seriously ever again.

Erm....
Im pretty sure the OP didnt do this because he felt bad about what hitler did, and id imagine he woulda done the same thing if it was a little arab boy...

Thanks mate, I would have done it for anyone being racially abused.

who are you to tell them what's right and wrong. Yes, making 'racist' remarks isn't nice but they're not going to listen to you are they.

who am I to tell them whats right or wrong?? Someone who knows a racist comment when they hear it, thats who

People are going to act like idiots, but you have to learn to ignore it.

Yes, next time someone calls me a **** or my friends ******* I think I will ignore it, what a good idea, I will let people walk all over me and others while just lying there and taking it! Your a genius, I wish I thought of that!

I wonder if it'd been a group of stacked blokes that'd said it, if you'd have told them what to do and gone and hit one of them.

We are a group of stacked blokes so it doesnt matter and if they were bigger than us then I may have considered going to the police. It wouldnt have stopped me from speaking to the guards though.

Was speaking to my friend earlier today and he was saying that he should have handled the incident differently. Despite what people think, he isnt looking for fights and isnt a scrapper. Both my friend and myself (as well as other in my circle of friends) are coloured, and growing up where I lived, there were very few coloured people about so we know what it was like to get picked on and bullied at school. He just lost control of his emotions which is why he did what he did.

Violence is definitely not the answer in most cases, which is why I had words with security. I havent really tried to justify what my friend did, as I have repeatedly said he shouldnt have done it. I have no remorse for the kid on the receiving end though.

That said, I tip my hat to Panthro who managed to defuse the situation with some choice words rather than resorting to violence.

Thank you

 

[Richdog]

We are a group of stacked blokes so it doesnt matter

Goodness grief... way to support the "we're not tools" argument.

Was speaking to my friend earlier today and he was saying that he should have handled the incident differently. Despite what people think, he isnt looking for fights and isnt a scrapper

*cough* if he isn't a scrapper my name is Mildred Merkin. I've seen that sort of thing lots of times, you just don't walk up to someone and elbow them in the head unless you a) have a slight screw loose and b#) enjoy a ruck. Keep telling yourself otherwise though...

 

[panthro]

Goodness grief... way to support the "we're not tools" argument.

That was a joke.

*cough* if he isn't a scrapper my name is Mildred Merkin. I've seen that sort of thing lots of times, you just don't walk up to someone and elbow them in the head unless you a) have a slight screw loose and b#) enjoy a ruck. Keep telling yourself otherwise though...

I will keep telling myself otherwise....or my friend might beat me up

 

[singist]

Sorry, got to go back to the "who are you to say" comment .... it doesn't matter if its racist or not or all the other **** arguments ..... if it is WRONG or INSULTING then it needs dealing with.
I'm not sure about the level of violence but without being there, it's very hard to judge. HOWEVER .....


"EVIL FLOURISHES WHEN GOOD MEN STAND BY AND DO NOTHING"

And if we want our lives to improve and not have to post "what a **** country we live in" type threads, then WE ALL have to do SOMETHING.


If it's wrong, it's wrong; common sense and some idea of manners, repect and decency should prevail.... it matters not a jot whether one calls it a sin, a crime or just being rude..... we all know it it's wrong or right.

 

[Mint_Sauce]

I agree with Singist!

 

[FincH]

who am I to tell them whats right or wrong?? Someone who knows a racist comment when they hear it, thats who

No. You're the one who should take it to an authority who can deal with it. But fine, take it on yourself and if you go Policing every bad situation you see or hear you'll soon end up wishing you hadn't in my opinion. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying people shouldn't stick up for themselves, by all means do, but I think it's wrong for people to get involved in situations like that when there were security gaurds (one may have been a moron but you could have approached the other one in a nicer manner. No need to stoop to his level) present who could have acted accordingly.

Yes, next time someone calls me a **** or my friends ******* I think I will ignore it, what a good idea, I will let people walk all over me and others while just lying there and taking it! Your a genius, I wish I thought of that!

Yes, why not do that. Why say something back? That's what they want. They want you to say something hoping something kicks off. No point fighting fire with fire. Honestly, next time someone calls you a silly little name, try walking on by.

We are a group of stacked blokes so it doesnt matter and if they were bigger than us then I may have considered going to the police. It wouldnt have stopped me from speaking to the guards though.

We are a gorup of stacked blokes who stick up for ourselves as long as it's little ***** kids we're elbowing in the head. Nice.

 

[Mr Spew]

Why didn't you just go up to the security gaurd straight off, or just ignore them. It sounds like when you did approach him it was in the wrong way and after your friend had hit one of the lads.

Ignorance is even worse.

But no, firstly you start having a go at them yourselves and get abuse back, but who are you to tell them what's right and wrong. Yes, making 'racist' remarks isn't nice but they're not going to listen to you are they. They'll find out properly when they get done over for running their big mouths.

Then your friend goes and elbows one of them. Wtf? That's disgustng. He actualy went an elbowed some kid in the head? What a ****.

Yeah, they had a god at them and got abuse back - what would you do? Just let it slide? Just sit back and allow the little horrible idiots get away with it?

Done over? That's exactly what they just got.

People are going to act like idiots, but you have to learn to ignore it. You can't go shouting off at people and lashing out just because they are out of order. Think you're the Police or something?

You think you're in some sort of position to tell me what I can and can't do? When I was brought into the world, I didn't agree for the police to make and judge every decision I make, and I expect they wouldn't say too much about this to be fair, just a slap on the wrist. If we just ignore the idiots, they'll continue to be idiots and never learn. That racism or whatever stems from somewhere, it should be stopped, not ignored. The method is questionable, but his mind was in the right place.

I wonder if it'd been a group of stacked blokes that'd said it, if you'd have told them what to do and gone and hit one of them.

What difference does that make?

 

[Cueball]

lol... 50% of people would have walked up to the yob and struck him in the head in that situation? Riiiight.

They woulda up north! I don't know how you southern fairies deal with things...

 

[Mr Spew]

Now I agree, I hate this mamby pamby view some people have and in an ideal world it'd be nice for us all to play hero, but what I'm saying to what the thread starter did is that you shouldn't go around laying down you own law when you have no authority to.

It wasn't the thread starter that did it.

Why exactly doesn't he have the authority to do that?

 

[FincH]

Ignorance is even worse.

Yeah, they had a god at them and got abuse back - what would you do? Just let it slide? Just sit back and allow the little horrible idiots get away with it?

Yeah, because I wouldn't have got involved in the first place.

You think you're in some sort of position to tell me what I can and can't do? When I was brought into the world, I didn't agree for the police to make and judge every decision I make, and I expect they wouldn't say too much about this to be fair, just a slap on the wrist. If we just ignore the idiots, they'll continue to be idiots and never learn. That racism or whatever stems from somewhere, it should be stopped, not ignored. The method is questionable, but his mind was in the right place.

I don't agree. The security people are there for a reason, to deal with idiots etc. Adn with the "You think you're in some sort of position to tell me what I can and can't do" comment, doesn't that totaly go with what I said about people sticking their nose in to other peoples situations?

What difference does that make?

Erm probably becuase if a group of blokes had said the comment to the Jewish lad I can be pretty certain the thread starter and his mate wouldn't have got involved, but becuase it was some lad they did.