I Hate Dead Pixels
- Thread starter bluetech
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fish99 said:
I totally agree. Under the distance seller act you are legally entitled to inspect the item as if you were physically in the shop. For example, say you ordered a T-shirt and upon inspection it didn’t fit or you don’t like the colour. As long as the item is in the same condition as in which you received it you are legally entitled to return it at your own cost within a 7day “cooling off” period.
I have had the same dead pixel problem last year when I purchased a TFT. At first the seller (who will remain nameless) just told me dead pixels do not constitute the unit being defective. So I had to resort to using the Distance Seller Act to return the item. In the end I managed to have my shipping refunded but this was only because I spent 30min on the phone demanding it.
Just remember the customer is always right (as long as you know your rights and are prepared to kick up a fuss!!!!!!!!)
PS The cooling off period and right to cancel do not apply to contracts for:
• Goods made to the customer's specification;
• Perishable goods (flowers, fresh food);
• CDs, DVDs, and tapes with software, audio or video if unsealed;
• Newspapers and magazines;
• Betting, gaming and lotteries
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And you really think it's fair on the retailer to have to return used goods? They're either going to have to sell them as used and take the hit through no fault of their own, which is hardly fair, or else sell them again as brand new, which is legally questionable. Even if they could get away with this, as I said, how would you feel if you bought a brand new item and discovered it had been opened and used by someone else?fish99 said:
Despite what you've been told or managed to cajole a supplier into doing, I still don't believe they are legally bound to offer a full refund on a used item simply because you decide you don't want it any more. It's just not logical or reasonable in my view. If the law does indeed permit this then it's frankly barking.
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Vertigo1 said:
At the risk of being banned on this forum; I will go out on a limb and say I couldn’t care less whether me returning goods will damage an online retails profit margins. I, after all, am the customer and I expect quality goods and a high level of service.
The distance seller’s act was brought in to protect consumers (the little man) who purchased items which he/she were unable to physically inspect at the time of purchase. The right to cancel allows the consumer time to examine the goods, as they would have when buying in a shop. As far as I’m concerned unpacking a TFT, plugging it in and turning it on constitutes inspection. So the buyer is well within his/her rights to do this.
As for your example about it being fair for the buyer to return a TFT; do you really think it’s fair for buyers to have to put up with the lottery that is buying a TFT without dead pixels????? From your point of view, it will always be the consumer (the little guy) who loses out while the seller makes a profit every time!!!
See more here:
http://www.dti.gov.uk/consumers/fact-sheets/page24635.html
I would just return it under the Distance Sellers ActVertigo1 said:
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Ok then, try walking into a high street shop and asking them to dig a brand new monitor out of the stock room (not a demonstrator unit mind!) and connect it all up for you to have a look at. See how far you get.ninja_1980 said:
It's one thing to inspect goods you've purchased for defects, it's quite another to expect a retailer, either high-street or online, to let you "play" with goods and then not buy them.
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Ok then. How do I inspect goods, in this case a TFT, without opening the packaging and plugging it into my PC?
If, in the cases that we have been discussing, the retailer refused to have the item returned I would just see them in the small claims court.
If, in the cases that we have been discussing, the retailer refused to have the item returned I would just see them in the small claims court.
Hang on a minute, we're not talking about defective goods here. Obviously if something is defective then you're entitled to return it.
TFT panels with a dead pixel or two are NOT defective! The ISO standard under which they are sold permits a certain level of dead or stuck pixels or sub-pixels. If you receive such a panel it is not legally defective and thus you cannot return it under the SoGA, your only option is to resort to the DSR, which is the scenario we're discussing here.
The DSR is intended to allow you to return goods you no longer want, for any reason, up to at least seven days after receipt. It is intended to offer you the chance to change your mind in case the purchase was an ill-considered, "impulse" buy, or just to look at the goods as if you were in a shop. Where I am disagreeing with some others is in what constitutes "looking at" the goods. Personally I think this only extends as far as it would in a shop, where they may well let you look at something but they're highly unlikely to let you actually "use" a brand new item if you have made no commitment to buying it. Others obviously disagree and feel you should be allowed to use the items as much as you wish before returning them for a full refund, even if they're not defective.
TFT panels with a dead pixel or two are NOT defective! The ISO standard under which they are sold permits a certain level of dead or stuck pixels or sub-pixels. If you receive such a panel it is not legally defective and thus you cannot return it under the SoGA, your only option is to resort to the DSR, which is the scenario we're discussing here.
The DSR is intended to allow you to return goods you no longer want, for any reason, up to at least seven days after receipt. It is intended to offer you the chance to change your mind in case the purchase was an ill-considered, "impulse" buy, or just to look at the goods as if you were in a shop. Where I am disagreeing with some others is in what constitutes "looking at" the goods. Personally I think this only extends as far as it would in a shop, where they may well let you look at something but they're highly unlikely to let you actually "use" a brand new item if you have made no commitment to buying it. Others obviously disagree and feel you should be allowed to use the items as much as you wish before returning them for a full refund, even if they're not defective.
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I don’t really want to get into the “how many dead pixels constitute a defective unit” argument because that’s a completely different can of worms and we’ll never see eye to eye.
I have never purchased any electrical items in store because I always end up finding it cheaper online. However, I do tend to examine the quality of items such as TV’s, TFTs, etc in my local **** **** store. When choosing my latest TFT I asked the sales rep at the said store if, in theory, it would be possible to inspect the unit for dead pixels before purchase. After politely explaining how bitterly disappointed I would be if the unit did indeed have dead pixels he agreed that they would be happy to help.
Now, this store in particular has a VERY good reputation nationwide for their level of customer service so they could very well be the exception rather than the rule. But as far as I am concerned if I can get this level of service in store then why shouldn’t I be able to open and inspect units bought online, and if not 100% satisfied, return them????
I have never purchased any electrical items in store because I always end up finding it cheaper online. However, I do tend to examine the quality of items such as TV’s, TFTs, etc in my local **** **** store. When choosing my latest TFT I asked the sales rep at the said store if, in theory, it would be possible to inspect the unit for dead pixels before purchase. After politely explaining how bitterly disappointed I would be if the unit did indeed have dead pixels he agreed that they would be happy to help.
Now, this store in particular has a VERY good reputation nationwide for their level of customer service so they could very well be the exception rather than the rule. But as far as I am concerned if I can get this level of service in store then why shouldn’t I be able to open and inspect units bought online, and if not 100% satisfied, return them????
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Until some of these issues are subject to a Court hearing all anyone has are varying 'opinions'.
The intent of the Act was to place people in the same position as if they were in the store and able to see what they were buying.
The law was framed to deal with misleading adverts for things like rings that looked as though the gems were huge in the advert and tiny when they arrived, or items that looked sturdy and reliable in a picture but were flimsy when seen in reality.
The Act was not put there to help people get around the fact that TFTs can have dead pixels.
If you buy what looks like a black panel and it appears grey when you open the box then that is what the Act is there for.
At a push, if the adverts for the panel show glorious deep rich colours and in reality they appear washed out then the Act is there for that too.
There is a very real risk that if you send one back that is not faulty and then re-order the same model it will become clear that you actually had no legitimate reason to return the first one. So don't necessarily expect any one retailer to play the game with you once you reject the first one they deliver.
Yes I know you don't need to state a reason but if you are not returning it because it doesn't match your expectations why then would you order another one the same?
The good news though is that the yields are getting very good now on TFTs so the risk is a lot lower than it was.
The intent of the Act was to place people in the same position as if they were in the store and able to see what they were buying.
The law was framed to deal with misleading adverts for things like rings that looked as though the gems were huge in the advert and tiny when they arrived, or items that looked sturdy and reliable in a picture but were flimsy when seen in reality.
The Act was not put there to help people get around the fact that TFTs can have dead pixels.
If you buy what looks like a black panel and it appears grey when you open the box then that is what the Act is there for.
At a push, if the adverts for the panel show glorious deep rich colours and in reality they appear washed out then the Act is there for that too.
There is a very real risk that if you send one back that is not faulty and then re-order the same model it will become clear that you actually had no legitimate reason to return the first one. So don't necessarily expect any one retailer to play the game with you once you reject the first one they deliver.
Yes I know you don't need to state a reason but if you are not returning it because it doesn't match your expectations why then would you order another one the same?
The good news though is that the yields are getting very good now on TFTs so the risk is a lot lower than it was.
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I’m not trying to be rude. But why would the consumer care if he/she upset the retailer, they threw their toys out of the cot and then refused to allow the customer to purchase the same unit again after a return. The consumer would just take their business elsewhere and the process would be repeated until a satisfactory unit was obtained.
I suppose if I owned an online IT retailer with slim profit margins I might have a different attitude?
I suppose if I owned an online IT retailer with slim profit margins I might have a different attitude?
This problem won't go away any time soon.
We as consumers want to buy something the retailers are not selling - class 1 devices at class 2 prices.
The good news as I said earlier is that the incidence of the problem is way lower than it once was but I doubt it will go away completely for some time.
We as consumers want to buy something the retailers are not selling - class 1 devices at class 2 prices.
The good news as I said earlier is that the incidence of the problem is way lower than it once was but I doubt it will go away completely for some time.
Quote from the DSR....
"However, if the consumer has done no more than examine the goods as they would have in a shop and if that requires opening the packaging and trying out the goods then they would not have breached their duty to take reasonable care of the goods."
That is what the law says and that is what you are entitled to do, end of story.
"However, if the consumer has done no more than examine the goods as they would have in a shop and if that requires opening the packaging and trying out the goods then they would not have breached their duty to take reasonable care of the goods."
That is what the law says and that is what you are entitled to do, end of story.
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No argument there at all. As I suggested above, checking that the colour rendition was as expected would be a valid reason for turning it on.
But most retail stores will not let you do that in the first place, especially if they have a representative sample on display and they certainly won't let you work through their stock till you find a specific one that you like
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I don't think anyone is suggesting that you can't inspect it, the problem comes from the motive as you are trying to ensure you get something that the retailer isn't selling, a 'perfect' panel, rather than checking that it looks and performs as you were led to believe by the advertising.
Inspect and return by all means but don't expect the retailer to send you another identical model.
But most retail stores will not let you do that in the first place, especially if they have a representative sample on display and they certainly won't let you work through their stock till you find a specific one that you like
.I don't think anyone is suggesting that you can't inspect it, the problem comes from the motive as you are trying to ensure you get something that the retailer isn't selling, a 'perfect' panel, rather than checking that it looks and performs as you were led to believe by the advertising.
Inspect and return by all means but don't expect the retailer to send you another identical model.
Vertigo1 said:
I've asked in a earlier post how you can buy a tft with a zero dead pixel guarentee for professional use. So how is a TFT catergorised as consumer or professional? Do you tell the supplier that it's a business purchase?
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