i5 2500k upgrade needed, I think (2nd hand buying advice)

[slim01]

I dont have a gtx 1080 but here is a guy with a 1070 and your cpu getting higher fps than u.. this is probably 1080p maxed

I played the same game on a 4.9ghz 2500k last year and i hit 60 fine on a rx 580 (1080p mix of medium and max settings)

https://youtu.be/LHZqi19HaBY

I quantum break a gtx 1080 overclocked can just about hold 60fps...

Well maybe that insane OC of yours makes a hige difference... Now I can barely get mine to 4ghz... Get temps of 90-95oC. This might be to do with swapping to a HTPC case. Temps have always been higher, since swapping, but not re-applied an overclock in years, as well... Never needed to. All other games have ran fine (maybe about 20 games or so). But I think now the games I'm trying are getting the CPU working (hard) the temps are sky-rocketing... OC is failing due to heat.

In china I'll prob be getting a full tower case anyway - Gonna need it - I heard the Ivy bridge / 4770k run HOT. And China is, well hot. Why did Intel put stupid tim inside the cpu? The sandybridge processors were legendary for overclocking. Literally the only thing I used to do is change multiplier for easy 4.5ghz.
Got a single 12cm corsair water cooler with the 4770k... I hope it's up to the task.

 

[Figo]

remember though, ACO and especially Quantum Break run pretty bad even on a high end new system..

I played through both when i had my 1080 and that was using an Oc'd Ryzen 7 and QB especially played like mince.

And Doom on a 1080 @ 4k is a 60fps experience.

 

[X x X]

Well maybe that insane OC of yours makes a hige difference... Now I can barely get mine to 4ghz... Get temps of 90-95oC. This might be to do with swapping to a HTPC case. Temps have always been higher, since swapping, but not re-applied an overclock in years, as well... Never needed to. All other games have ran fine (maybe about 20 games or so). But I think now the games I'm trying are getting the CPU working (hard) the temps are sky-rocketing... OC is failing due to heat.

In china I'll prob be getting a full tower case anyway - Gonna need it - I heard the Ivy bridge / 4770k run HOT. And China is, well hot. Why did Intel put stupid tim inside the cpu? The sandybridge processors were legendary for overclocking. Literally the only thing I used to do is change multiplier for easy 4.5ghz.
Got a single 12cm corsair water cooler with the 4770k... I hope it's up to the task.

Have u tried a better thermal paste?
Ye i had the cpu on a hyper 212evo (£25 cheepo cooler) ..am using a hyper 212x on my 5820k and im getting its max overclock and i have no case fans...
Listen..do what i do..
Put your pc on its side.. and open the side pannel and leave it off..

That will lower temps big time...

Whats your cpu voltage...
At 4.9ghz in quantum break on a rx580 i was nearly maxing the cpu but i was mainly gpu bottlenecked

But ye as the dude above said like meeeee...

U are gpu bottlenecked...

In ac origins.. u will be both gpu and cpu bottlenecked

Ac origins loves 6cores 12 threads and 8core sixteen

Doom .. put on the built in performance metrics when u play the game

Look at where it says " avg, min, max, last"

The one where it says last..
Which ever one has the highest number? Is your bottleneck..
Im betting at 4k.. its gona have the gpu

Hmm hold on..thats weird.. its saying my cpu is my bottleneck hmmm at 1440p aswell..
Hmm maybe u are right..
Never mind..
Ok on the cyberdeamon boss level ye..
Anything above 900p? Im gpu bottlenecked...
Your 1080 is close to my fury x in doom..

But honestly yeah? I would say to wait for next gen consoles to arrive..

See how many cores they have? And then use that to have your pc at minimum having the base spec that the consoles have...

Looking at how games are going? Its gonna be at least 8 cores...
Microsoft puts advertisements in the xbox dashboard now so they make more money so the next xbox may be powerfull... who knows

Ye in doom for me to become cpu bottlenecked i have to put the game to 800x600 ..and even then im not cpu bottlenecked.. its the game maxing at 200fps....

 

[slim01]

remember though, ACO and especially Quantum Break run pretty bad even on a high end new system..

I played through both when i had my 1080 and that was using an Oc'd Ryzen 7 and QB especially played like mince.

And Doom on a 1080 @ 4k is a 60fps experience.

How bad? Because everywhere I see benchies for AC-O, it shows the 1080 and even 1070 getting well over 60fps av, and minimums of like 50, at 1080p.
A (4 core/4T) 7600k shows everywhere as 75 av fps, and around 55min... Thats at ULTRA.

I'm thinking that what I'm seeing is a memory bottleneck - The game obliviously needs FAST ddr3 or ddr4. My 2500k build seems screwed then, because I literally cannot get my memory higher than 1600mhz, and only one channel is in dual channel (have 4x4gb, both corsair vengeance, but the blue colour actually has a VERY slight difference in CAS).
If i set the XMP 1866, it doesn't even POST

Have u tried a better thermal paste?
Ye i had the cpu on a hyper 212evo (£25 cheepo cooler) ..am using a hyper 212x on my 5820k and im getting its max overclock and i have no case fans...
Listen..do what i do..
Put your pc on its side.. and open the side pannel and leave it off..

That will lower temps big time...

Whats your cpu voltage...
At 4.9ghz in quantum break on a rx580 i was nearly maxing the cpu but i was mainly gpu bottlenecked

But ye as the dude above said like meeeee...

U are gpu bottlenecked...

In ac origins.. u will be both gpu and cpu bottlenecked

Ac origins loves 6cores 12 threads and 8core sixteen

Doom .. put on the built in performance metrics when u play the game

Look at where it says " avg, min, max, last"

The one where it says last..
Which ever one has the highest number? Is your bottleneck..
Im betting at 4k.. its gona have the gpu

Hmm hold on..thats weird.. its saying my cpu is my bottleneck hmmm at 1440p aswell..
Hmm maybe u are right..
Never mind..
Ok on the cyberdeamon boss level ye..
Anything above 900p? Im gpu bottlenecked...
Your 1080 is close to my fury x in doom..

But honestly yeah? I would say to wait for next gen consoles to arrive..

See how many cores they have? And then use that to have your pc at minimum having the base spec that the consoles have...

Looking at how games are going? Its gonna be at least 8 cores...
Microsoft puts advertisements in the xbox dashboard now so they make more money so the next xbox may be powerfull... who knows

Ye in doom for me to become cpu bottlenecked i have to put the game to 800x600 ..and even then im not cpu bottlenecked.. its the game maxing at 200fps....

Yeah, using the best paste - Thermal grizzly kyronaut. I can take lid off... but well, i have a water cooler now that came with the 4770k... Hopefully it does an ok job, its corasir single 12cm fan one...

Yeah I think 8 core is the way forward.... no way im spending 500 on a cpu though. sorry intel! maybe ryzen will start to show its worth soon

 

[X x X]

Yeah, using the best paste - Thermal grizzly kyronaut. I can take lid off... but well, i have a water cooler now that came with the 4770k... Hopefully it does an ok job, its corasir single 12cm fan one...

Yeah I think 8 core is the way forward.... no way im spending 500 on a cpu though. sorry intel! maybe ryzen will start to show its worth soon

Ryzen 3 is out next year.....

Thats weird though.. sandy is usualy enough....
4770k should be fine for a few years..

At least u are happy .. thats all that matters end of the day

 

[slim01]

Ryzen 3 is out next year.....

Thats weird though.. sandy is usualy enough....
4770k should be fine for a few years..

At least u are happy .. thats all that matters end of the day

Yeah happy for now, hope in the next two years there's a bigger leap in CPU performance. Would love an AMD build again.

I hope AMD work on the per core performance rather than adding more cores... their 8/12/16 core offerings are plenty for next few years of gaming.

I heard the next threadripper will be like 37 cores?!?! Really no point for gaming... Threadripper with extra 500mhz per core? That would have demolished anything from intel.

 

[X x X]

Yeah happy for now, hope in the next two years there's a bigger leap in CPU performance. Would love an AMD build again.

I hope AMD work on the per core performance rather than adding more cores... their 8/12/16 core offerings are plenty for next few years of gaming.

I heard the next threadripper will be like 37 cores?!?! Really no point for gaming... Threadripper with extra 500mhz per core? That would have demolished anything from intel.

There has always been a huge leap in performance bro....

Xeon has been around for ages.. its the ...how can i explain it ..

Whats the weakest link?
Its the code.. the issue is.. in gaming.. most games "cheat"... they adapt depending on what the player does....so thats "a single core" right?.. u can multithread as much as u want..but end of the day...one core has to boost high...and the rest can be clocked low. Because every core is waiting on the answer from one core.. the players movement.. in theory...
This can be fixed with random A.I ... & MCM cpus..
Having a wafer with a complex comprised of cores that clock high...
Sell a gaming edition cpu....
Only gamers buy i7's
Racing games can benefit from a 30 core... having each core... do each car with advanced physics...

Another issue now is.. security...

 

[LuckyBenski]

There has always been a huge leap in performance bro....

Xeon has been around for ages.. its the ...how can i explain it ..

Whats the weakest link?
Its the code.. the issue is.. in gaming.. most games "cheat"... they adapt depending on what the player does....so thats "a single core" right?.. u can multithread as much as u want..but end of the day...one core has to boost high...and the rest can be clocked low. Because every core is waiting on the answer from one core.. the players movement.. in theory...
This can be fixed with random A.I ... & MCM cpus..
Having a wafer with a complex comprised of cores that clock high...
Sell a gaming edition cpu....
Only gamers buy i7's
Racing games can benefit from a 30 core... having each core... do each car with advanced physics...

Another issue now is.. security...

What the **** are you talking about

 

[linktoinsanity]

There has always been a huge leap in performance bro....

Xeon has been around for ages.. its the ...how can i explain it ..

Whats the weakest link?
Its the code.. the issue is.. in gaming.. most games "cheat"... they adapt depending on what the player does....so thats "a single core" right?.. u can multithread as much as u want..but end of the day...one core has to boost high...and the rest can be clocked low. Because every core is waiting on the answer from one core.. the players movement.. in theory...
This can be fixed with random A.I ... & MCM cpus..
Having a wafer with a complex comprised of cores that clock high...
Sell a gaming edition cpu....
Only gamers buy i7's
Racing games can benefit from a 30 core... having each core... do each car with advanced physics...

Another issue now is.. security...

What are you going on about?

 

[EsaT]

My 2500k build seems screwed then, because I literally cannot get my memory higher than 1600mhz, and only one channel is in dual channel (have 4x4gb, both corsair vengeance, but the blue colour actually has a VERY slight difference in CAS).
If i set the XMP 1866, it doesn't even POST

4 DIMMs should certainly work in dual channel mode.
Memory bus speed doesn't have anything to do with that.

But 4 DIMMs puts more load on platform for getting higher speeds.
So have you tried slightly upping memory voltage?
Also memory controller might benefit from slight increase of voltage.
Looks like it should be VCCSA in Sandy Bridge:
https://www.hardwaresecrets.com/understanding-all-voltage-configurations-from-the-motherboard/4/
https://www.reddit.com/r/overclocking/comments/8en7it/sandy_bridge_imc_voltage/

I hope AMD work on the per core performance rather than adding more cores... their 8/12/16 core offerings are plenty for next few years of gaming.

Well, 7nm Zen2 might pull something like 20% single core/thread performance increase from current Ryzens.

IPC increase rumors have been 10-15%, with one of the later ones being 13%.
Which shouldn't be that hard if AMD has used time since finalizing Zen1 to improve memory controller/latencies closer to Intel's and Infinity Fabric, besides intra core improvements.
AMD certainly lacked both money/resources and time to do everything in Zen1.
Besides first version of any such dramatically new architecture being far from the best.
And current Ryzens are also held back by GloFo's manufacturing process, licensed from Samsung, having been originally designed for mobile chips, which limits clock speeds clearly behind Intel.
(has likely hurt also AMD GPUs)
TSMC's 7nm node used by AMD again has been designed/optimized for high performance from the start and hence should clock decent amount higher.
(TSMC has another 7nm node for those mobile SOCs of Apple/Huawei/Qualcomm)

 

[X x X]

What are you going on about?

He said there has been no big performance leap....
I showed him that there has been..
Intel xeon....
Chips with loads of cores...
We have had huge performance leaps...
Everyone is looking in the wrong direction...

Like bruce lee said...

Its like a finger pointing at the sky... if u look at the finger...u will miss all the heavenly glory...

I told microsoft the same thing...
The whole time they were trying to enter the phone market ...trying to make everyone switch to x86...

I told them...NO..
I asked them to make a version of windows that runs on ARM...

Instead of trying to make the market come to them.... they should go to the market

And they did....

Maaaan......

Pft...

 

[slim01]

4 DIMMs should certainly work in dual channel mode.
Memory bus speed doesn't have anything to do with that.

But 4 DIMMs puts more load on platform for getting higher speeds.
So have you tried slightly upping memory voltage?
Also memory controller might benefit from slight increase of voltage.
Looks like it should be VCCSA in Sandy Bridge:
https://www.hardwaresecrets.com/understanding-all-voltage-configurations-from-the-motherboard/4/
https://www.reddit.com/r/overclocking/comments/8en7it/sandy_bridge_imc_voltage/



Well, 7nm Zen2 might pull something like 20% single core/thread performance increase from current Ryzens.

IPC increase rumors have been 10-15%, with one of the later ones being 13%.
Which shouldn't be that hard if AMD has used time since finalizing Zen1 to improve memory controller/latencies closer to Intel's and Infinity Fabric, besides intra core improvements.
AMD certainly lacked both money/resources and time to do everything in Zen1.
Besides first version of any such dramatically new architecture being far from the best.
And current Ryzens are also held back by GloFo's manufacturing process, licensed from Samsung, having been originally designed for mobile chips, which limits clock speeds clearly behind Intel.
(has likely hurt also AMD GPUs)
TSMC's 7nm node used by AMD again has been designed/optimized for high performance from the start and hence should clock decent amount higher.
(TSMC has another 7nm node for those mobile SOCs of Apple/Huawei/Qualcomm)

This sounds amazing, I really hope you speak the truth with AMD. Would love some better competition in cpu market, theyre finally showing a real good comeback IMO.

X x X I have no idea what you mean buddy, but I love the Bruce Lee quotes... I do hope you told that to Microsoft

 

[WantoN]

WANTON WHEN ARE YOU SELLING YOUR KIT!! Pleeeeeeeeease today!

Hi mate. If you want someone to see a specific post the best way is to use the @. Like @slim01

Unfortunately as per the mod edit selling outside of the MM is not permitted. Send me a Trust if you want any specific help or advice and you don’t want to derail the thread, but I’m afraid I can’t sell it to you through the forums; I’ve not been banned in 15 years and I don’t plan on breaking the habit

Besides, I won’t be selling for at least a week so I believe I’ll be too late for you anyway

I believe the 4790K has better TIM and a small boost in clocks. If you’re delidding (which I highly recommend you do) then you probably won’t notice.

I’d stick with the 4770K, buy/borrow a Delid Die mate, some high temp silicon sealant, and some liquid electrical tape (you can use nail varnish, but imo the liquid tape is way better). Delidding is obscenely easy as long as you’re not one of those unfortunate people born with thumbs for fingers.

 

[slim01]

Hi mate. If you want someone to see a specific post the best way is to use the @. Like @slim01

Unfortunately as per the mod edit selling outside of the MM is not permitted. Send me a Trust if you want any specific help or advice and you don’t want to derail the thread, but I’m afraid I can’t sell it to you through the forums; I’ve not been banned in 15 years and I don’t plan on breaking the habit

Besides, I won’t be selling for at least a week so I believe I’ll be too late for you anyway

I believe the 4790K has better TIM and a small boost in clocks. If you’re delidding (which I highly recommend you do) then you probably won’t notice.

I’d stick with the 4770K, buy/borrow a Delid Die mate, some high temp silicon sealant, and some liquid electrical tape (you can use nail varnish, but imo the liquid tape is way better). Delidding is obscenely easy as long as you’re not one of those unfortunate people born with thumbs for fingers.

I'm not sure what this means - Hi mate. If you want someone to see a specific post the best way is to use the @. Like @slim01

I can't see a like button anywhere. I have Trust/multi/quote.

But yeah... Just waiting for my liquid metal. I have my RTV sealant, craft knife and lovely lovely nail varnish ready to go!
My mrs did wonder why I was asking her what colour nail polish she wanted.. But hey... It was buy 1 for £4 or 3 for £5!! Got into a tricky explanation which ended simply in "I'm just doing brain surgery on my computer... Don't worry babe, I'm a doctor, not a transvestite. ".


My main worry with this is transportation to China though... This CPU is going to be moved around... A LOT.
Do you think it's best I do this after I've gotten to china? The liquid metal looks very.. Well...Liquid. Will it seep out with lots of force? Will I have to reapply more if I take off the lid again to check it's still on the die (and not over the pcb) when I get to China?

 

[slim01]

Like this??

@Sgarrista

 

[slim01]

Like @Sgarrista

 

[slim01]

buy/borrow a Delid Die mate

Are these nessacery? Personally I don't like the look of them... Looks like they could potentially twist/snap the pcb or IHS... They look like they use a lot of force. So I'd be inclined to first slice the old sealant anyway.

 

[ilc72]

I know fella, thanks though. He’s been around long enough, so if he pays up prior I wouldn’t have an issue.

** Mod edit - Please be reminded that trading outside the MM through the forums is not advisable or permitted**

Is there any thoughts on reducing the post count for MM access? I’m in the frustrating position of wanting to sell a prebuilt OcUK system to a good home? I realise the MM comes with a lot of protections but to me it feels too high, or could there be a caveat emptor Buy/Sell section instead?

 

[WantoN]

You got the @ tag correct fella.

If using nail varnish check what temperature it remains stable up to. That’s why I recommend liquid electrical tape; it peels off easy and withstands high temperature.

The delid die mate is the safest way to delid a CPU. I’ve used a vice before and that’s fine, the die mate is much more accurate and controlled, and comes with tools to help you align the IHS perfectly and clamp it back down whilst the silicon sets.

I do not like the scalpel method, at all. For me the risk of damaging a track or via is way too high.

We apply varnish/LET to protect from spills, but they shouldn’t be a problem. Once you’ve siliconed the IHS back on it’s going nowhere, and I’ve had a delidded cpu shipped before without any issue. The best way is to leave it fitted to the Mobo and ship them as a single piece.

Whilst it’s no good for you, and I’m quite confident that buying/selling from you would be no issue (hence my original offer) the limits are there for a reason. A lot of us have been here for a long time, and that establishes a little Trust. It stops people from coming on, spamming and having access to something I think is quite special.

If the limits were dropped we’d increase the risk of dodgy dealings on the MM, and if we started getting issues on there then OCUK would have no choice but to close it. It doesn’t make OCUK any money, and we’re very lucky to have it, and the unfortunate side effect of limiting some newer, trustworthy members is worth it to protect the MM in my opinion. Sorry fella.

 

[KarolW92]

Is there any thoughts on reducing the post count for MM access? I’m in the frustrating position of wanting to sell a prebuilt OcUK system to a good home? I realise the MM comes with a lot of protections but to me it feels too high, or could there be a caveat emptor Buy/Sell section instead?

Don't think it will happen any time soon I'm afraid. Which is a shame as I'd benefit from it also