If Ayrton Senna was a young driver today..

Mr Men · 14 Jul 2012 at 23:05

"andy" said:
lol

Not sure what you find funny?

This forum wants Maldonado banned from the sport for a racing incident, what Senna done was premeditated crashing to win a title, no worse than what Renault did in Singapore.

A disgusting act that showed he had no respect for the sport or any other driver on the grid.

Housey · 14 Jul 2012 at 23:06

arknor said:
its clearly not traction control.

there were starts where schumacher didnt get off the line well, there were starts where hill launched like a rocket yet everyone ignores the poor starts and focuses on france.

if were going by visible evidence surely the merc had launch control last year....

Why are you so focused on the start aspects to uphold your opinion, again you need to have a much broader perspective, perhaps taken from people who were trackside at corners during races in 94.....well for a starter at least. Really, you seem to be criticising me, wrongly, for doing the very things you are doing yourself, taking videos and comments from others with no real knowledge to uphold your opinion. I am confident other cars were also pushing the laws heavily in 94 too but your superficial arguments are weak and I have never onces used starts during races to substantiate my opinion because they don't.

Mr Men · 14 Jul 2012 at 23:11

Housey said:
Why are you so focused on the start aspects to uphold your opinion, again you need to have a much broader perspective, perhaps taken from people who were trackside at corners during races in 94.....well for a starter at least. Really, you seem to be criticising me, wrongly, for doing the very things you are doing yourself, taking videos and comments from others with no real knowledge to uphold your opinion. I am confident other cars were also pushing the laws heavily in 94 too but your superficial arguments are weak and I have never onces used starts during races to substantiate my opinion because they don't.

Steve Matchett's book tells about this incident, he was a main mechanic in the team and would tell you there was nothing illegal about their car, but if you want to just pick quotes to back your stance then I doubt you would have read it anyway

I have no reason to believe he would be lying as his books were written after he left the team.

Housey · 14 Jul 2012 at 23:16

Mr Men said:
Steve Matchett's book tells about this incident, he was a main mechanic in the team and would tell you there was nothing illegal about their car, but if you want to just pick quotes to back your stance then I doubt you would have read it anyway

I have no reason to believe he would be lying as his books were written after he left the team.

I have life in the fast lane amongst over 150 motorsport books, most of which I have read. I also urge you to grow up and stop suggesting I am being 'selective', you have your view, I don't share it.

Mr Men · 14 Jul 2012 at 23:19

Housey said:
I have life in the fast lane amongst over 150 motorsport books, most of which I have read. I also urge you to grow up and stop suggesting I am being 'selective', you have your view, I don't share it.

Why do you think Matchett would be lying considering his position in the team, would he know more than anything you have quoted so far?

I have not said I disagree with your view either or had a view on it, so no idea why I need to grow up? All I posted is a counter claim to the ones you seem keen to promote.

Skeeter · 14 Jul 2012 at 23:23

In the famous words of JRS, "pull up" Housey.

This forum is far more enjoyable with Mr Men and arknor on your ignore list, trust me.

Housey · 14 Jul 2012 at 23:33

Mr Men said:
Why do you think Matchett would be lying considering his position in the team, would he know more than anything you have quoted so far?

I have not said I disagree with your view either or had a view on it, so no idea why I need to grow up? All I posted is a counter claim to the ones you seem keen to promote.

I am not keen to promote, I am simply saying I believe they were cheating (and not the only team either!) and I posted a statement to clarify the FIA stance as it was mentioned. The other was an interesting adjunct to that FIA perspective that sat alongside it when I copied it so share it too, no more than that. I'm not trying to tell you that you are wrong, for that is pointless as I am not willing to share all of my insights but I am saying I don't agree.

I'm not suggesting he is lying, I am suggesting he might now have known. Business is full of people who think they are in the know when in fact they really aren't, this might be another example, then again it might not an all the people who have told me they are confident they were cheating early 94 are wrong. Motorsport is full of people who cheat, its engrained in the culture of the sport from what I race at the bottom of the sport right through to F1, always has been and always will be and I know people who will look me in the face and tell me they never cheated forgetting 20 years ago they told me how they 'got around that rule'

So then, this Senna bloke

Housey · 14 Jul 2012 at 23:34

Skeeter said:
In the famous words of JRS, "pull up" Housey.

This forum is far more enjoyable with Mr Men and arknor on your ignore list, trust me.

Oh I never ignore anyone, well not using a list

arknor · 15 Jul 2012 at 00:44

Housey said:
Why are you so focused on the start aspects to uphold your opinion, again you need to have a much broader perspective, perhaps taken from people who were trackside at corners during races in 94.....well for a starter at least. Really, you seem to be criticising me, wrongly, for doing the very things you are doing yourself, taking videos and comments from others with no real knowledge to uphold your opinion. I am confident other cars were also pushing the laws heavily in 94 too but your superficial arguments are weak and I have never onces used starts during races to substantiate my opinion because they don't.

because its clearly launch control and not traction control
from your own qoutes

"launch control" (an automatic start system)

and

"launch control". This is a system which, when armed, allows the driver to initiate a start with a single action. The system will control the clutch, gear shift and engine speed fully automatically to a predetermined pattern.

which is almost exactly how starts are in formula one right now, you know how the drivers find the "bite point" on the parade lap? thats all this "launch control" system was

such a system cant be used for traction control other than to get a near perfect start .

ayrton claimed he could hear the traction control yet no one else seems to have been able to and we cant hear it on the trackside cameras like we could when traction control was legal.

maybe because it never existed?

ignore the facts though pretend its full on traction control if it makes you happy

Housey · 15 Jul 2012 at 12:04

I believe we have already taken this topic to far off topic, but you really have only a basic grasp of things and are forming your views it would seem on the same points over and over, some videos, 1 driver and semantics around terms. I have a broader view and am happy with my view and your limited perspective has bought nothing to the table to change that view so time to move on I feel.

arknor · 15 Jul 2012 at 16:01

because you know better than the people who looked at the source code.....

Housey · 15 Jul 2012 at 17:08

arknor said:
because you know better than the people who looked at the source code.....

Refer to my post above.

arknor · 15 Jul 2012 at 19:36

its clearly explained in the report how it worked and its impossible to use such a system for traction control.

but i guess your bitter hatred views dont let you see logic

Housey · 15 Jul 2012 at 19:41

arknor said:
its clearly explained in the report how it worked and its impossible to use such a system for traction control.

but i guess your bitter hatred views dont let you see logic

You need to stop pushing your petulance and angst onto others, stamping your feet and making silly and childish comments will not illicit the reaction you hope old boy, I will simply blow you a kiss and laugh at you some more.

Jono8 · 15 Jul 2012 at 19:43

ooo popcorn time

Mr Men · 15 Jul 2012 at 19:52

Housey said:
You need to stop pushing your petulance and angst onto others, stamping your feet and making silly and childish comments will not illicit the reaction you hope old boy, I will simply blow you a kiss and laugh at you some more.

If he does not believe they cheated then why does it make him childish?

Housey · 15 Jul 2012 at 20:05

Mr Men said:
If he does not believe they cheated then why does it make him childish?

You miss my point. His dismissive posting style is that of a petulant child not of someone I believe is what, 31. The fact he does not agree with me is not why I believe him to be childish, for that would be stupid and I am not stupid. He is more than entitled to his opinion, I disagree but it seems important to him to tell me I am wrong when it's not important to me that he believes he is wrong, simply that I don't agree with him. To keep posting his singular view of 'The FIA and YouTube show it's rubbish' is simplistic and not worthy of further comment in my humble opinion.

And to answer the question you removed, do I have evidence? No I don't, not empirical evidence, but I have other peoples views I value who were there at the time working in the sport (as was I at the British GP, watching) who believe there was a case to answer that the FIA didn't address and experiences had by those people that lead me to believe the traction of that Benetton was special.

Hope that makes it clear.

Duke · 15 Jul 2012 at 20:42

There was clearly something going on and probably still things like this today, to a certain extend. All very hidden

Mr Men · 15 Jul 2012 at 21:07

Housey said:
To keep posting his singular view of 'The FIA and YouTube show it's rubbish' is simplistic and not worthy of further comment in my humble opinion.

No offence but your view has been just as singular, you quoted the FIA report and a book commenting on the FIA report, neither of which had any sort of evidence they were cheating

Any names for these other people in the sport you believe, and why would they know what was going on when you dismissed Matchett's comments on this issue in his book? Is that not taking a singular view?

Housey · 15 Jul 2012 at 22:09

Mr Men said:
No offence but your view has been just as singular, you quoted the FIA report and a book commenting on the FIA report, neither of which had any sort of evidence they were cheating

Any names for these other people in the sport you believe, and why would they know what was going on when you dismissed Matchett's comments on this issue in his book? Is that not taking a singular view?

I am not prepared to go into this as I said, take from that what you wish.