If next year's consoles do 4k/60..

[GAC]

You are talking about right now.

I imagine the majority of TV's released in 2021 (after the consoles are released) will have HDMI 2.1

this is the thing that a LOT of people on here and other forums seem to forget we are not the majority or the target audience for these products, how many people who have working 4k tv's are going to go and drop say £1k+ on a new one next year ?? maybe in a couple of years the two technology's will marry up with games that can actually take advantage of 4k120 and its worth it to spend on a new tv, but for now like the 8k spec its all nice marketing waffle.

and as for next year more models will have hdmi 2.1 sure, but dont expect it in the majority as the majority just yet as outside of the next xbox and pc gamers (ps5 probably to follow who knows) its not a big enough thing. same with 8k.

 

[VincentHanna]

But those people won't be buying the premium Xbox.

They will buy the cheaper, slower model that's supposedly in the works.

 

[GAC]

lol "premium xbox" yeah we shall see how premium it is i guess come end of year.

 

[LePhuronn]

as for price il still be amazed if its not £599 or more unless ms and sony for that matter are going to take a HUGE hit on each one sold.

Point 1: taking a huge hit on the hardware has been the console business model since the very beginning. The money is make back through the games and bolt-on services. So yes, MS and Sony will take a hit on the hardware because Xbox Live, PSN, the games, the peripherals, etc. will make all the money back.

Point 2: why do you think the hardware is going to be SO expensive to produce that MS and Sony will have to charge stupid money? There's nothing actually expensive going into the consoles that would warrant such a high unit price they'd have to make a loss.

 

[ljt]

It's quite funny to see people saying it's launching with old outdated hardware, obviously they haven't looked into what is actually in the upcoming consoles.

This is nothing like the Xbox One/PS4 release in the slightest. They did launch with outdated CPU's, and mid to low range GPU's

The Series X and PS5 are launching with current Zen 2 CPU's with 8 cores and 16 threads and GPU architecture that is yet to actually be released and PCIE4 NVME drives that currently only the AMD platform supports. This is far different to last/current gen consoles.

 

[Perfect_Chaos]

To be honest, I don't care too much for modern gaming. Sure, they can make the visuals better, but that's about it. Game design is still pretty much the same it's always been since Wolfenstein and Doom - you run around, collect and shoot stuff. It's become dull as dishwater.

I want new experiences. Which is why the last (and only) console I ever bought was the Wii (excluding 8-bit consoles and computers from the late 70s and 80s). And now we finally have decent VR. It's different and exciting. Playing endless first person shooters with just better graphics on a flat panel...boring.

Games like Killing Floor, and others, could do with self learning AI. They have already done it or tested it controlling bots against live players in certain games, so if they can do that why don't they implement it IN the games? Maybe people would get mad because the games would become too difficult.. but they can surely scale the difficulty levels somehow.

 

[GAC]

Point 1: taking a huge hit on the hardware has been the console business model since the very beginning. The money is make back through the games and bolt-on services. So yes, MS and Sony will take a hit on the hardware because Xbox Live, PSN, the games, the peripherals, etc. will make all the money back.

Point 2: why do you think the hardware is going to be SO expensive to produce that MS and Sony will have to charge stupid money? There's nothing actually expensive going into the consoles that would warrant such a high unit price they'd have to make a loss.

yes they take a hit but the last gen for example the rough estimate was up to $50 a unit at launch, the reason i think its going to be a bigger hit is what is being put in there.

you have amd's newest and yet to be launched gpu architecture with claimed rtx2080s performance going off of TF's (insert random argument about console optimisation throughout their life which i will not dispute) and a 8 core zen 2 based cpu all bundled in to one apu with 16 gigs of GDDR6, then a nmve ssd, (not seen any official word if its pcie4 or not though possibly will be). ignoring its bluray 4k drive and other bits and bobs its a lot of toys in one box, yes they will get discounts on bulk purchasing and the like but even then IF it retails at $500 and they have had the greatest deal in the world on parts i bet they will be dealing with at least $100 a unit at launch of loss per unit sold.

now who knows no one on here has a clue what ms or sony are paying amd per apu bought probably wont be the price we'l end up paying for the pc version of the new card but i just see the hit being bigger than previous generations thats all.

 

[hyperseven]

yes they take a hit but the last gen for example the rough estimate was up to $50 a unit at launch, the reason i think its going to be a bigger hit is what is being put in there.

you have amd's newest and yet to be launched gpu architecture with claimed rtx2080s performance going off of TF's (insert random argument about console optimisation throughout their life which i will not dispute) and a 8 core zen 2 based cpu all bundled in to one apu with 16 gigs of GDDR6, then a nmve ssd, (not seen any official word if its pcie4 or not though possibly will be). ignoring its bluray 4k drive and other bits and bobs its a lot of toys in one box, yes they will get discounts on bulk purchasing and the like but even then IF it retails at $500 and they have had the greatest deal in the world on parts i bet they will be dealing with at least $100 a unit at launch of loss per unit sold.

now who knows no one on here has a clue what ms or sony are paying amd per apu bought probably wont be the price we'l end up paying for the pc version of the new card but i just see the hit being bigger than previous generations thats all.

Don't they also have to fork out for all different types of licences for the tech they include? ( Dolby, DTS, Blu-ray etc). Then all the usual production costs, labour, r&d, marketing...

 

[GAC]

Don't they also have to fork out for all different types of licences for the tech they include? ( Dolby, DTS, Blu-ray etc). Then all the usual production costs, labour, r&d, marketing...

if you wanted to go all the way down the lists of costs sure. but didnt want to start getting too silly with it

 

[Rofflay]

Even just the comments on this thread looking back a few weeks is comedy gold now















12 Teraflops of RDNA 2.0 says hi. Phil Spencer says hi, next gen games are targeting 4k 60 to 120fps over HDMI 2.1

Lets see how you buy that for 500 quid. If the next gen does native 4k 60 it will be a complete shock a my 2080ti barely does it. So you all think your still getting 4k 60hz non checkerboard?

 

[silvagti]

I want new experiences. Which is why the last (and only) console I ever bought was the Wii (excluding 8-bit consoles and computers from the late 70s and 80s). And now we finally have decent VR. It's different and exciting.

That's one reason I'm excited for the ps5. I love Playstation VR but the hardware in it is clearly very limited by the use of the original PS4 as base spec plus the limitations of the ps camera and move controllers for tracking and movement.

The ps5 should be powerful enough to run VR reasonably at 1440p/4k and we'll likely see a psvr2 headset with much improved optics, new controllers and inside out tracking.

It'll be interesting to see what they price the machines at but I'll be shocked if either MS or Sony are brave enough to break the £500 barrier.

 

[Grim5]

That's one reason I'm excited for the ps5. I love Playstation VR but the hardware in it is clearly very limited by the use of the original PS4 as base spec plus the limitations of the ps camera and move controllers for tracking and movement.

The ps5 should be powerful enough to run VR reasonably at 1440p/4k and we'll likely see a psvr2 headset with much improved optics, new controllers and inside out tracking.

last year Sony patented a wireless VR headset that has inside out tracking, 1440p per eye at 100hz, uses Foveated rendering and has a 7 hour battery life.

and so far this year they've been patenting various VR controllers

So make of that what you will

 

[LePhuronn]

my 2080ti barely does it

Because it has to mess around with Windows, DirectX, abstraction layers, software drivers and christ knows what else getting in the way of its raw performance. Now take a locked spec system, code purely for that system and as close to bare metal as possible and you'd see significant performance uplift.

 

[silvagti]

last year Sony patented a wireless VR headset that has inside out tracking, 1440p per eye at 100hz, uses Foveated rendering and has a 7 hour battery life.

and so far this year they've been patenting various VR controllers

So make of that what you will

Yeah, I've seen stores about some of those patents. Wireless VR seems like the next logical step for them and given even gone brew solutions like virtual desktop on the Oculus Quest work pretty well I expect Sony will have no issues implementing something little this on ps5 with psvr2.

 

[GAC]

Because it has to mess around with Windows, DirectX, abstraction layers, software drivers and christ knows what else getting in the way of its raw performance. Now take a locked spec system, code purely for that system and as close to bare metal as possible and you'd see significant performance uplift.

you do know the new xbox runs on directX

 

[Hedge]

you do know the new xbox runs on directX

When developing games for the pc does the fact that they need to try and cater for every configuration of hardware and drivers make a difference?

 

[Zernath]

Lets see how you buy that for 500 quid. If the next gen does native 4k 60 it will be a complete shock a my 2080ti barely does it. So you all think your still getting 4k 60hz non checkerboard?

If it's running the equivalent of ultra settings on a PC, then it's doubtful that a console will ever be able to achieve that kind of performance for that price point. But my PC can do 4K 60Hz quite easily, just not at max settings for every game.

Now, 4K 120Hz is an entirely different matter, and I simply don't see how a console will be able to do it without significant graphical compromises.

 

[GAC]

When developing games for the pc does the fact that they need to try and cater for every configuration of hardware and drivers make a difference?

didnt say it didnt just pointing out its running directX thats all

 

[Grim5]

If it's running the equivalent of ultra settings on a PC, then it's doubtful that a console will ever be able to achieve that kind of performance for that price point. But my PC can do 4K 60Hz quite easily, just not at max settings for every game.

Now, 4K 120Hz is an entirely different matter, and I simply don't see how a console will be able to do it without significant graphical compromises.

most games won't. On the previous pages I did calculations which indicated the next Xbox could win wolfenstein Youngblood at 4K 120.

but do you think next gen games will have the same or better graphics? Will they be as optimized as one of the most optimized games ever made?

it's all unlikely so it's also unlikely that games which push graphics will do 120fps

 

[ArmitageShanks]

Because it has to mess around with Windows, DirectX, abstraction layers, software drivers and christ knows what else getting in the way of its raw performance. Now take a locked spec system, code purely for that system and as close to bare metal as possible and you'd see significant performance uplift.

I think you overestimate the performance gain, especially at the GPU level. Sure, a PC can be bogged down with non-essential non-gaming tasks if you're silly enough to run it that way, but they're usually calling on the CPU.

As for abstraction layers and drivers, I'd be surprised if a modern console OS does not have them too for various hardware revisions and controller options. Do you honestly think that XBox is not running a stripped down version of Windows? Or that the PS5 will have a completely new "optimized" OS rather than just a reskinned version of whatever the PS4 is running?

No game developer codes at the bare metal anymore. It all goes through an API layer.