If you could go back in time to one Musical event
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I wonder if you can provide an example of Sex Pistols playing tightly Sexy Fox?
If you can do that I will admit I'm wrong.
Sexy Goat, please read this 
Sid Vicious was just as incompetent as you've heard, unable to tune or play his bass, but he wasn't chosen for the band for his musicianship. The Pistols’ manager Malcolm McLaren fancied that he was making some sort of artistic statement through the look and style of the band as well as through their music, and he thought Sid represented the sort of nihilistic, destructive force he wanted punk to be. Plus he was a good looking lad (under all the hairspray and the sneer) who oozed danger and looked good with his shirt off.
The rest of the band had to cope with Sid as best they could, which is why they tuned his bass for him, but generally turned his amp off before gigs (perfectly tuned basses don't mean a thing if you're still playing the wrong notes), assuming that what with all the gobbing, the jumping around and the heroin he wouldn't notice.
McLaren’s idea was to take a bunch of uneducated working class kids who couldn't play and turn them into a world-beating rock band, but the problem is that, to state the blindingly obvious, people who can't play music can't play music. Unless they learn, at which point they aren't people who can't play music any more. So he ended up with a band that could play, but were happy to go along with the myth that they couldn't if it made for good press.
The rest of the band were hardly virtuoso musicians, but their recorded performances are impressive- Never Mind the ******** is a more complex production than many other punk albums of the period, particularly for Steve Jones’ multi-tracked guitar orchestrations (and bass playing on many of the songs, since Glen Matlock had been sacked and Sid was useless).
Lydon’s job as a frontman was never to sing perfectly in tune, it was to present the band's dangerous, anti-establishment, anti-traditional image, and to scare the **** out of Middle England, which he did with aplomb. What his vocals lack in finesse they more than make up for in pure violent aggression, which is what he was aiming for.
That said, the band were all on board to a greater or lesser extent with McLaren’s punk philosophy that didn't want to emphasise musicianship- rather to positively conceal it- so the emphasis at Pistols shows was never on musical excellence where it came in to conflict with exciting performance.
Sid Vicious was just as incompetent as you've heard, unable to tune or play his bass, but he wasn't chosen for the band for his musicianship. The Pistols’ manager Malcolm McLaren fancied that he was making some sort of artistic statement through the look and style of the band as well as through their music, and he thought Sid represented the sort of nihilistic, destructive force he wanted punk to be. Plus he was a good looking lad (under all the hairspray and the sneer) who oozed danger and looked good with his shirt off.
The rest of the band had to cope with Sid as best they could, which is why they tuned his bass for him, but generally turned his amp off before gigs (perfectly tuned basses don't mean a thing if you're still playing the wrong notes), assuming that what with all the gobbing, the jumping around and the heroin he wouldn't notice.
McLaren’s idea was to take a bunch of uneducated working class kids who couldn't play and turn them into a world-beating rock band, but the problem is that, to state the blindingly obvious, people who can't play music can't play music. Unless they learn, at which point they aren't people who can't play music any more. So he ended up with a band that could play, but were happy to go along with the myth that they couldn't if it made for good press.
The rest of the band were hardly virtuoso musicians, but their recorded performances are impressive- Never Mind the ******** is a more complex production than many other punk albums of the period, particularly for Steve Jones’ multi-tracked guitar orchestrations (and bass playing on many of the songs, since Glen Matlock had been sacked and Sid was useless).
Lydon’s job as a frontman was never to sing perfectly in tune, it was to present the band's dangerous, anti-establishment, anti-traditional image, and to scare the **** out of Middle England, which he did with aplomb. What his vocals lack in finesse they more than make up for in pure violent aggression, which is what he was aiming for.
That said, the band were all on board to a greater or lesser extent with McLaren’s punk philosophy that didn't want to emphasise musicianship- rather to positively conceal it- so the emphasis at Pistols shows was never on musical excellence where it came in to conflict with exciting performance.
Also.
We take a look back at the converging and then, ultimately diverging directions of two of punks most recognised bass players: Sid Vicious and Paul Simonon.
Arguably there were two influential bands that came out of the British Punk Rock scene in the mid-’70s: The Sex Pistols and The Clash. Although there was a stark contrast of each other in their fashion, outlook and music style, they had one thing in common, they both had bassists who had never played bass before and were recruited on their ‘look’ alone.
After the departure of Glen Matlock, the Sex Pistols had John Simon Richie thrust upon them by Pistols manager Malcolm McLaren. Richie famously went by the name, Sid Vicious. Even though Sid had no experience playing bass his attitude and avid following of Sex Pistols got him the gig.
On the other side of this story, Mick Jones was putting a band together and had seen a fellow student hanging around the art college he attended. Tall, lean, well dressed and popular with the female students; Paul Simonon looked like he was already in a band and Mick Jones knew he wanted to be in a band with him. Just like Sid Vicious though Paul Simonon could not play bass.
On paper, Sid Vicious had a head start. He had just joined a well-established band, with a set of songs, basslines already written by Matlock and a growing fan base. Simonon, on the other hand, was holding onto the enthusiasm of Mick Jones and, quite frankly, hated the idea of being the bass player. Paul Simonon had no desire to be stuck in the rear with the gear; he wanted to be front and centre like Pete Townsend of The Who. Acceptance is the first step though and Simonon agreed to be the bassist and that he was going to be right at the front with Jones and Joe Strummer.
There is little known about how Sid Vicious learnt the basics of the bass, The assumption has always been the Steve Jones, the guitarist of the Sex Pistols showed him enough and in early gigs, the bass rig was turned way down or even turned off, to mask the fact that Sid couldn’t play.
Paul Simonon, on the other hand, has been quite vocal about his early bass playing days. Again, like Sid, he was shown how to play by The Clash guitarist Mick Jones. Paul Simonon had “borrowed” a bass and Mick Jones had removed the strings and painted the notes on the fretboard with pink nail varnish. When rehearsing songs, Jones and strummer would shout out the notes of the chord changes to the young bass player. Fans in the crowd at early Clash gigs have said the notes on the bass guitar were clearly visible.
As our two stories continue, they still run in parallel. When it came to recording the debut albums, both the Pistols and The Clash had their guitarists record the bass parts on behalf of their respective bass players.
Finally, this is where the two stories split and go in opposite directions.
After the release of Never mind the ********, it all went crazy for the pistol punk rockers and Sid was in many ways the focal point of the band. With the newfound infamy came all the indulgence of the rock n’ roll lifestyle and Vicious feasted off of it all.
While the Sex Pistols and Sid were suddenly the darlings of the flourishing London music scene, Paul Simonon had fallen head over heels with the bass. He practised night after night whether the band were rehearsing or not. You could argue that Simonon had an aptitude for bass and Sid didn’t. But, like all good musicians, The Clash bassist put the time, effort and passion into his instrument. He studied his new art; he coveted his bass idols; he grafted and crafted his own style of playing the bass.
When Sid Vicious died in February 1979 the Sex Pistols were long gone, the punk bass player had relocated to New York to work on his solo career and, quite frankly, to get high. His bass playing had not changed much in the years since he took up the instrument. He was soon to be a reckless youth idol, but not for playing bass.
On the other side of the river, Paul Simonon had taking over recording duties off of Mick Jones, when The Clash recorded their second album, give ‘em enough rope and had already written imaginative bass parts such as (White Man) In Hammersmith Palais.
Plus, the best was still best to come with the release of London Calling and Combat Rock. There are some classic and iconic basslines strewn across those two albums. London Calling, Guns of Brixton, Rock the Casbah and Should I stay or should I go, to name a few.
These two stories tell of a great lesson of getting out what you put in, staying grounded and that passion and drive will always shine through. In the view of the wider world, Sid Vicious is the brighter star, but Paul Simonon is an icon of an era of political and social unrest. In the music world, The Clash bass player is still and will always be well respected, not just for is look and style but the music he created.
The Great Punk Bass Swindle: Sid Vicious and Paul Simonon
December 2, 2019 by Matthew Wand
We take a look back at the converging and then, ultimately diverging directions of two of punks most recognised bass players: Sid Vicious and Paul Simonon.
Arguably there were two influential bands that came out of the British Punk Rock scene in the mid-’70s: The Sex Pistols and The Clash. Although there was a stark contrast of each other in their fashion, outlook and music style, they had one thing in common, they both had bassists who had never played bass before and were recruited on their ‘look’ alone.
After the departure of Glen Matlock, the Sex Pistols had John Simon Richie thrust upon them by Pistols manager Malcolm McLaren. Richie famously went by the name, Sid Vicious. Even though Sid had no experience playing bass his attitude and avid following of Sex Pistols got him the gig.
On the other side of this story, Mick Jones was putting a band together and had seen a fellow student hanging around the art college he attended. Tall, lean, well dressed and popular with the female students; Paul Simonon looked like he was already in a band and Mick Jones knew he wanted to be in a band with him. Just like Sid Vicious though Paul Simonon could not play bass.
On paper, Sid Vicious had a head start. He had just joined a well-established band, with a set of songs, basslines already written by Matlock and a growing fan base. Simonon, on the other hand, was holding onto the enthusiasm of Mick Jones and, quite frankly, hated the idea of being the bass player. Paul Simonon had no desire to be stuck in the rear with the gear; he wanted to be front and centre like Pete Townsend of The Who. Acceptance is the first step though and Simonon agreed to be the bassist and that he was going to be right at the front with Jones and Joe Strummer.
There is little known about how Sid Vicious learnt the basics of the bass, The assumption has always been the Steve Jones, the guitarist of the Sex Pistols showed him enough and in early gigs, the bass rig was turned way down or even turned off, to mask the fact that Sid couldn’t play.
Paul Simonon, on the other hand, has been quite vocal about his early bass playing days. Again, like Sid, he was shown how to play by The Clash guitarist Mick Jones. Paul Simonon had “borrowed” a bass and Mick Jones had removed the strings and painted the notes on the fretboard with pink nail varnish. When rehearsing songs, Jones and strummer would shout out the notes of the chord changes to the young bass player. Fans in the crowd at early Clash gigs have said the notes on the bass guitar were clearly visible.
As our two stories continue, they still run in parallel. When it came to recording the debut albums, both the Pistols and The Clash had their guitarists record the bass parts on behalf of their respective bass players.
Finally, this is where the two stories split and go in opposite directions.
After the release of Never mind the ********, it all went crazy for the pistol punk rockers and Sid was in many ways the focal point of the band. With the newfound infamy came all the indulgence of the rock n’ roll lifestyle and Vicious feasted off of it all.
While the Sex Pistols and Sid were suddenly the darlings of the flourishing London music scene, Paul Simonon had fallen head over heels with the bass. He practised night after night whether the band were rehearsing or not. You could argue that Simonon had an aptitude for bass and Sid didn’t. But, like all good musicians, The Clash bassist put the time, effort and passion into his instrument. He studied his new art; he coveted his bass idols; he grafted and crafted his own style of playing the bass.
When Sid Vicious died in February 1979 the Sex Pistols were long gone, the punk bass player had relocated to New York to work on his solo career and, quite frankly, to get high. His bass playing had not changed much in the years since he took up the instrument. He was soon to be a reckless youth idol, but not for playing bass.
On the other side of the river, Paul Simonon had taking over recording duties off of Mick Jones, when The Clash recorded their second album, give ‘em enough rope and had already written imaginative bass parts such as (White Man) In Hammersmith Palais.
Plus, the best was still best to come with the release of London Calling and Combat Rock. There are some classic and iconic basslines strewn across those two albums. London Calling, Guns of Brixton, Rock the Casbah and Should I stay or should I go, to name a few.
These two stories tell of a great lesson of getting out what you put in, staying grounded and that passion and drive will always shine through. In the view of the wider world, Sid Vicious is the brighter star, but Paul Simonon is an icon of an era of political and social unrest. In the music world, The Clash bass player is still and will always be well respected, not just for is look and style but the music he created.
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I posted one from Paris 1976, I said don't listen to the poor recording or bad vocals listen to how tight the band are.
I'd be proud to walk on stage with a band that tight.
I Think this was first band I ever saw live, who remembers them? and yes we've got beyond wishing bands we've never seen, its all good, say what you like
It was Be Bob Deluxe I saw first, oh wow they were good.
Saw them loads of times and for the first time since it was released I've recently been going through Maid In Heaven because my other guitarist started playing it the other week.
There's no way it will end up in our set list though.
We also played Ships In The Night in this current band but it went 'whooosh' straight over peoples heads
Sexy Goat, please read this
Sid Vicious was just as incompetent as you've heard, unable to tune or play his bass, but he wasn't chosen for the band for his musicianship. The Pistols’ manager Malcolm McLaren fancied that he was making some sort of artistic statement through the look and style of the band as well as through their music, and he thought Sid represented the sort of nihilistic, destructive force he wanted punk to be. Plus he was a good looking lad (under all the hairspray and the sneer) who oozed danger and looked good with his shirt off.
The rest of the band had to cope with Sid as best they could, which is why they tuned his bass for him, but generally turned his amp off before gigs (perfectly tuned basses don't mean a thing if you're still playing the wrong notes), assuming that what with all the gobbing, the jumping around and the heroin he wouldn't notice.
McLaren’s idea was to take a bunch of uneducated working class kids who couldn't play and turn them into a world-beating rock band, but the problem is that, to state the blindingly obvious, people who can't play music can't play music. Unless they learn, at which point they aren't people who can't play music any more. So he ended up with a band that could play, but were happy to go along with the myth that they couldn't if it made for good press.
The rest of the band were hardly virtuoso musicians, but their recorded performances are impressive- Never Mind the ******** is a more complex production than many other punk albums of the period, particularly for Steve Jones’ multi-tracked guitar orchestrations (and bass playing on many of the songs, since Glen Matlock had been sacked and Sid was useless).
Lydon’s job as a frontman was never to sing perfectly in tune, it was to present the band's dangerous, anti-establishment, anti-traditional image, and to scare the **** out of Middle England, which he did with aplomb. What his vocals lack in finesse they more than make up for in pure violent aggression, which is what he was aiming for.
That said, the band were all on board to a greater or lesser extent with McLaren’s punk philosophy that didn't want to emphasise musicianship- rather to positively conceal it- so the emphasis at Pistols shows was never on musical excellence where it came in to conflict with exciting performance.
You mentioned Sid Vicious, I also mentioned him and said take no notice of the band with him in it because he couldn't play, he totally ruined the band and I hated his guts.
"Obviously Vicious was a pile of poo and completely ruined the band".
You've also fell for the Rock N Roll Swindle line, "McLaren’s idea was to take a bunch of uneducated working class kids who couldn't play and turn them into a world-beating rock band" - complete garbage and I wouldn't trust a single thing McLaren said.
McLaren didn't have a Punk Policy when the Pistols at the time Jones, Cook and Matlock were first formed, he absolutely saw a market though, a bit like Tam Paton taking a Heavy Rock band called the Bay Rollers and putting them in tartan singing By Bye Baby, I saw the Bay Rollers a couple of times doing Zeppelin. Purple and Sabbath covers.
The three of them without Lydon were playing Monkees, the Who and Small faces tunes before they wrote their own stuff, they even played those covers live so could already play to a decent standard.
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Man of Honour
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How many times, did you not read what I said about Vicious
Post 27 if you can't read.
I love how you've cut and pasted about Vicious, I have no interest in reading about that ******
I didn't know that about Paul Simonon though, that was interesting.
My bass player now, when he was first learning bass in the early 70s he had one string on the bass and the notes wrote on it, he's come on a little bit since then.
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Man of Honour
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Wow, my mate was right, calm down lad, for heavens sake
Wow do people actually talk like that off the forums
"My mate says if you use the forums there's an old fat bald bloke on there who talks crap about music"
Seriously?How old are you, 14
Ah, two people have told me you're a Returnee, that makes sense more than "My mate told me".
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Wow do people actually talk like that off the forums
"My mate says if you use the forums there's an old fat bald bloke on there who talks crap about music"
How old are you, 14
Ah, two people have told me you're a Returnee, that makes sense more than "My mate told me".
If i am a retrurnie as you say, who are the the other two people who say so too? C'mon then Mr Fox?
And even if I was, is that a crime?, you challenged me and were over the top and went drama queen first ... i could not care less about you, but have heard all about you and was forewarned and am gobsmaked to find the rumours were true, your ego precedes you sir and I am not impressed.
Been lurking here for ages, yonks, absolutely Yonks before and I genuinely would like to be a part of this community as much as anyone, whats my post count just now? not sure? if thats what you base people upon, but once upon a time you would have had same same of amount of posts too, if thats your angle?
I'm here for lots of reasons-first and foremost I buy nearly all my PC components here, am a very avid PC Flight simulatution enthusiast, and of course a massive Rock fan too ... when I heard about you, had to see it for myself.
There surely has to be room for two Rock Music enthusiasts here.
Please drop the attitude, we'll get on just fine I'm sure.
Man of Honour
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It's you with the attitude.
I don't believe for one second people talk about other people off this forum and especially home in on one person on a music forum who isn't special in any way
Complete nonsense, you're a Returnee, probably the bloke who posted a picture of him and Phil Lynott, I missed it, he had a go at me for missing it and he ended up getting banned when he went full Diva.
Can assure you that was not me, but you seem determined to mark me as such.
never seen such a bloated ego my entire life lad, honestly, my god LOL.
The only person having a go is you at your self dude, you are infamous about it, its like you want to make some person who was a returnee a criminal offence, are you autistic or something, can give you help if you are.
Let it go for heavens sake and move on, jeez. I'm as strong as you if not Stronger.
Was almost posting my OCUK account number for a second there, but took stock, bought thousands of pounds worth of parts of stuff from here over the years, never thought one prima donna chatter could be so musch hassle, nobody needs this stuff man, knock it off.
PS: never saw Phil from thin lizzy, you are paranoid sir.
never seen such a bloated ego my entire life lad, honestly, my god LOL.
The only person having a go is you at your self dude, you are infamous about it, its like you want to make some person who was a returnee a criminal offence, are you autistic or something, can give you help if you are.
Let it go for heavens sake and move on, jeez. I'm as strong as you if not Stronger.
Was almost posting my OCUK account number for a second there, but took stock, bought thousands of pounds worth of parts of stuff from here over the years, never thought one prima donna chatter could be so musch hassle, nobody needs this stuff man, knock it off.
PS: never saw Phil from thin lizzy, you are paranoid sir.
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Man of Honour
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I don't want to see anybody banned but you need to remove the insults before a Mod see's it.
Any rock concert in Argentina, that AC/DC one at River plate, 2009 looked mental.
Crowd just seems to be amazing at anything over there.
Some early Guns N Roses concert would have been good, I went to Milton Keynes in 93 and it was brilliant so I expect the earlier days would have been amazing.
Crowd just seems to be amazing at anything over there.
Some early Guns N Roses concert would have been good, I went to Milton Keynes in 93 and it was brilliant so I expect the earlier days would have been amazing.
Man of Honour
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How can I threaten you on a forum
You're living in a fantasy world.One of the main rules is not to insult forum members and I wouldn't want you banned when you've only just returned.
Also can you link to some of these posts where I've put other people's taste in music down because you won't find any. When you like some of the crap I listen to it's impossible to even pick on Coldplay.