Indoor rowing - Concept 2

[hellarda]

As @Street has mentioned, 10 on the resistance isn't great (although some gym ergs are so full of dust, 10 on the side can give you a sensible DF)

Whenever you get on an erg (unless its the same one!) you should go into More Options -> Display Drag Factor. As mentioned above it depends on height/weight/sex. BR guidance for testing sets DF as 138 for heavyweight men,and I believe 130 for heavyweight women. Lightweight, under 75kg for men and under 61.5kg for women, is ~123 and ~118 respectively.

I tend to do all my longer ergs at about 128 (I'm 6ft 1 and ~94kg) but testing is done at 138.

A high DF is more likely to cause you to injure yourself as it increases the strain on your back in the drive phase, hence why our long ergs are done at a lower DF!

Probably more info than you wanted, but that's the reasoning behind it, and why I sigh when walking into a gym and seeing all the ergs on 10 (sorry @Martynt74 )

 

[Martynt74]

Haha no, i appreciate it. I've never known about that setting and will definitely be dropping it in the future

 

[Street]

Thanks both. I’ll give that a go when I take delivery of it. God knows how long that might be, even the ordering of it is taking forever!

The demand for them has gone crazy! When the first lockdown hit the prices went through the roof, even old ones were selling on eBay for more than I paid for mine new.

 

[Converge]

I never actually knew about the drag factor in the settings! I really want mine now so I can play around.
Hopefully I’ll get my weight down after a few weeks!

Thanks again all

I’ll likely report back when I’ve embarrassed myself for a few weeks...

 

[Cantankerous]

How important do people feel seeing the 500m splits are when you're training?

I'm looking at a cheaper water rower (costco) considering the wait times for C2s are 3-4 months (and who knows with gyms reopen) and it's quieter for the flat. But it has a very basic monitor and doesn't show 500m times, seems to do m/s instead.

 

[SAM81]

How important do people feel seeing the 500m splits are when you're training?

I'm looking at a cheaper water rower (costco) considering the wait times for C2s are 3-4 months (and who knows with gyms reopen) and it's quieter for the flat. But it has a very basic monitor and doesn't show 500m times, seems to do m/s instead.

For me, its crucial. On the longer rows, being able to set an interval and see my pace at a standard measure is vital. Once you have a better understanding of your benchmark on a given distance, understanding how your doing in the split is really useful to making tweaks mid row.

If you have the budget and can wait, I'd really recommend holding for the C2. It's the racing standard, built like a tank and so easy to maintain. For what you get, I think its a bargain

 

[hellarda]

Thank **** 5k season is over and we can now concentrate on prep for real distances (2k....)

We've been off the water since before Christmas, and training individually at home since then, only had access to an erg and bike. It's been a pretty hard block to push through, and culminated today with a 5k test that I didn't quite hit my sub 17 target on, but its still a 3.2s PB, and considering the current climate and prep leading up to this I'm pretty happy. Also doing a 5k test alone was absolutely horrible. The toughest mental test I've ever had. I reckon if we'd done it at the club as a group I could have gone sub 17 but hey ho, we are where we are.



@Cantankerous echo the above tbh. You really can't beat the C2, along with having the monitor that gives split times etc. the water rowers just feel odd (and not like rowing on the water at all like they all love to claim, the process is the exact opposite in fact - on the water the whole point is you are trying "lock" the oar into the water in order to lever the boat around it, whereas the water rowers create the resistance by you moving the water in the machine. The less you "move" the water in a boat the more efficient your stroke will be, and thus the faster the boat speed)

 

[Cantankerous]

Thanks for the replies. The two of you have echoed everything I've read as well. Also had not thought of oars as leavers but now that you've said it, it makes perfect sense.

Finding one is the problem. Pay over the odds on ebay or wait approx 6 weeks for a WaterRower and 4 months for C2. The waterrower appeals simply for the lower noise level (although they do look good), since I'm in a flat but you can't seem to beat the C2 community and computer though.

I had originally hoped the gym would have stayed open or at least reopened sooner.

 

[Converge]

I just received my Concept2 Model D this week after ordering in October. It’s brilliant!

However... I think my form is letting me down. I’ve got it on drag factor ~132 / 5 on the lever. I weighed myself and I’m 85.5kg / 13st, 5’11” so about a stone overweight at the mo.
I don’t feel much in the way of resistance in my legs and I’m leaving the pull of my arms to the last minute as I’ve watched on the Concept2 video. Am I bum pushing the seat or whatever the phrase is? I’ve tried slowing down to focus on form but it just feels wrong to me.

And you should always keep your feet flat to the footrests right? No heel lifts/strikes?

 

[hellarda]

I just received my Concept2 Model D this week after ordering in October. It’s brilliant!

However... I think my form is letting me down. I’ve got it on drag factor ~132 / 5 on the lever. I weighed myself and I’m 85.5kg / 13st, 5’11” so about a stone overweight at the mo.
I don’t feel much in the way of resistance in my legs and I’m leaving the pull of my arms to the last minute as I’ve watched on the Concept2 video. Am I bum pushing the seat or whatever the phrase is? I’ve tried slowing down to focus on form but it just feels wrong to me.

Have you spent much time on an erg previously? The concept 2 videos are good, but they're not great for talking you through it - check out this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VE663Kg0c00&ab_channel=RowingAustralia

What kind of splits/watts are is the screen showing? You shouldn't be feeling a massive resistance really, it's still a cardio workout rather than a strength exercise.

And you should always keep your feet flat to the footrests right? No heel lifts/strikes?

A bit of heel lift into the catch is fine, even the guy in the above linked video does, and he has insane ankle flexibility! Most people wear raised heel lifting shoes to erg as well, so the heel is already slightly raised.

 

[SAM81]

Thank **** 5k season is over and we can now concentrate on prep for real distances (2k....)

We've been off the water since before Christmas, and training individually at home since then, only had access to an erg and bike. It's been a pretty hard block to push through, and culminated today with a 5k test that I didn't quite hit my sub 17 target on, but its still a 3.2s PB, and considering the current climate and prep leading up to this I'm pretty happy. Also doing a 5k test alone was absolutely horrible. The toughest mental test I've ever had. I reckon if we'd done it at the club as a group I could have gone sub 17 but hey ho, we are where we are.

That time blows my mind. At my best I hit a 1.51 split on on 5k. To see splits in the low 1.40's feels like voodoo to me!

What a final 1k too. Outstanding.

 

[hellarda]

That time blows my mind. At my best I hit a 1.51 split on on 5k. To see splits in the low 1.40's feels like voodoo to me!

What a final 1k too. Outstanding.

Cheers I do have the advantage of being a member of a very good club with a very good coaching team setting the programs etc. But I'm still probably in the bottom 20% with that time. A lot of the guys are trialling this year and going for about 16:20/16:30 (1:38ish split). Which also blows my mind

I probably chilled a bit too much in the first 3/4k and if I'd backed myself a bit more could have gone sub 17, but my plan was to chill a bit and then go ***** out for the last k... Which I did

It was much more pleasant doing it that way than just going ham from the start...

Still, onto 2k season now

 

[BennoUK]

Cheers I do have the advantage of being a member of a very good club with a very good coaching team setting the programs etc. But I'm still probably in the bottom 20% with that time. A lot of the guys are trialling this year and going for about 16:20/16:30 (1:38ish split). Which also blows my mind

I probably chilled a bit too much in the first 3/4k and if I'd backed myself a bit more could have gone sub 17, but my plan was to chill a bit and then go ***** out for the last k... Which I did

It was much more pleasant doing it that way than just going ham from the start...

Still, onto 2k season now

Well done, think you can still take 17 min though, give it another go? 1:39 for the first 2k, then chill the middle 1k and 1:39 the last 2k - I bet if I asked you to do 2 2ks sub 6:40 with a 3:20 rest in the middle you could do it right? It’s all in your head

 

[BennoUK]

Thanks for the replies. The two of you have echoed everything I've read as well. Also had not thought of oars as leavers but now that you've said it, it makes perfect sense.

Finding one is the problem. Pay over the odds on ebay or wait approx 6 weeks for a WaterRower and 4 months for C2. The waterrower appeals simply for the lower noise level (although they do look good), since I'm in a flat but you can't seem to beat the C2 community and computer though.

I had originally hoped the gym would have stayed open or at least reopened sooner.

I think those water rowers are a complete joke. Wait for the concept2, if something is worth doing it’s worth doing right. The concept2 will drive a competitive edge with yourself and others to push you on and deliver real life changing habits that stick. That wooden water monstrosity will be gathering dust in months.

I’ve been rowing 19 years (crikey) to a high standard and haven’t had access to a rowing machine during any of the lockdowns, even now I would rather go for a run than use one of those things lol.

 

[BennoUK]

I just received my Concept2 Model D this week after ordering in October. It’s brilliant!

However... I think my form is letting me down. I’ve got it on drag factor ~132 / 5 on the lever. I weighed myself and I’m 85.5kg / 13st, 5’11” so about a stone overweight at the mo.
I don’t feel much in the way of resistance in my legs and I’m leaving the pull of my arms to the last minute as I’ve watched on the Concept2 video. Am I bum pushing the seat or whatever the phrase is? I’ve tried slowing down to focus on form but it just feels wrong to me.

And you should always keep your feet flat to the footrests right? No heel lifts/strikes?

Hard to know without watching you. It could be that your legs are strong enough. What are your strokes per minute? At lower rates you will feel the load more than when you are clipping along at higher rates. On my rate 18 session my arse will start to ache after 15 mins because I’m having to heave so much that it is like a light leg press.

For most people the limiting factor for outright rowing speed is going to be cardio vascular because it is using so many muscle groups, you will feel the burn in your lungs before your legs so don’t have expectations that rowing should be this big leg weights session. They will of course get stronger over time, but the engine needs to be there to run them first.

On the heel rise issue, yes you should get a little bit at the catch. However be aware that the foot adjustments on the pedals are there for how flexible you are and NOT how big you think your feet are. If you notice that you are struggling with flexibility bring the heel up a notch.

 

[Converge]

Snip

Definitely appears to be ankle mobility as the main issue for me at the moment. Seems a year of only walking and sitting around a house has destroyed my flexibility! I think I’ll work on it with a foam roller and exercises for a few weeks and go back to it soon.

I was on 20-22 row rate, I prefer slow and strong than racing pace! Hopefully I’ll be able to do it comfortably soon. I can’t even squat without lifting my heels or falling over at the moment!

That’s a good video too, thanks Hellarda

Appreciate the replies all

 

[SKILL]

So I posted in this thread about a year ago with the aim of doing more rowing, which didn't happen... Lost all motivation for everything during lockdowns, did a bit of a 4-week plan during lockdown 2, and some crossfit between lockdown 1 and 2 but otherwise been slacking big time

Now I really need to do <something> as it's getting/gotten out of control, so towards the end of last week/over the weekend I decided to start the Beginners Pete Plan, 3 exercises a week with 2 extra optional ones. Might try to do some light zwifting as well but focus will hopefully be on rowing, will probably do some strength work at the gym when it opens for solo stuff in April. Not sure what I'll do when crossfit starts back up, maybe by then I'll be crazy enough to do both

Anyway, so todays effort, a simple 5k, how hard could it be... My PB is a 19:31 (1:57 splits) which was 28th March last year, knowing my fitness has dropped considerably I thought I'd take it 'easy' and aim for 2:10 but with the caveat of aiming to keep my HR around 175 or lawer, which is basically Zone 4 for me (my peak is ~195).

Was going ok, felt reasonable, for some reason the rower was set to a drag factor of ~110 rather than the 125-135 I used to use, but all good, except my HR steadily rising I hit 175 at ~1750m in, kept going at 2:10 until I hit 180 at ~2500m then dropped to 2:20 which kept my HR in the 170-175 region. Then with 700m to go I upped it back to 2:10, and 200m to go emptied the tank (hit 191 HR at ). But I did it, that's the main thing right?

For the lols/to make myself feel bad I compared it to my previous 5k effort, in the first split it's 2:09 @ 167bpm vs 1:57.2 @ 164bpm, and it just gets worse from there...

Still, tomorrow I'm planning to do the next row, 6x 500m / 2:00 rest, was torn between doing the first two back to back or getting a rest day but decided I want the rest day after the two and kinda aiming for 4 days this week, so the first optional as well (20 mins at slower than 5k pace).

I promise not to ramble so much after every day on the rower

 

[Street]

Nice one, I really enjoyed doing the BPP, the sessions are nice and varied so you don't get bored and the progression is good too! It's depressing how much your fitness drops off when you haven't done it in a while though. I remember when I first got my C2, I thought I'd knock out a distance and pace I'd done comfortably some time before in the gym and I blew up before I'd finished a couple k.

I had a crack at my 6km time on Friday night and managed to knock a few seconds off my previous PB.

 

[SKILL]

Yeah, I think the BPP also helps in that it's 'only' 3 exercises a week, yet with the optional ones it's tempting to (and I will) do some of the optional ones as well

Nice on the 6k, is that a common distance? Not really from a rowing background so kinda 'know' the standard ones on the C2 basically but only really done 2k and 5k... I'm kinda looking forward to getting up to the 10k+ mark cause right now the idea for that long seems utterly insane

 

[Street]

It's not one I do very often, but it is one of the ranked distances on the C2 log. It was also this months Cross Team Challenge so I thought I'd kill two birds one stone. One of the good things about the C2 as well is the community around it. I posted on their forums a bit and ended up joining an online team where they have various monthly challenges such as the CTC and Indoor Rowers League. They're just a bit of fun, but they definitely help me with my motivation when I haven't got anything else to work towards. This months IRL distance is 10k so that's my plan for Friday night. I'm hoping I can knock about 12 seconds off my PB from January and get under 38mins but it might be wishful thinking!