Intel 10nm Cannon Lake CPUs Delayed Until Late 2018

[HeX]

Intel have pretty much just said that their products for the next 12-18 months will be on 14nm until they get 10nm working. Assuming AMD do manage to get 7nm working as intended (which everything is pointing to), then Intel are in for a world of pain next year

 

[Rroff]

Intel have pretty much just said that their products for the next 12-18 months will be on 14nm until they get 10nm working. Assuming AMD do manage to get 7nm working as intended (which everything is pointing to), then Intel are in for a world of pain next year

Intel 10nm assuming they get it working to spec and part of the reason they've had such problems with it is fairly close to GF 7nm - slightly worse in some areas slightly better in others.

EDIT: Mind you second gen TSMC 7nm if they can pull that off looks like trampling on both.

 

[bru]

Everybody keeps saying that the 7nm node is going fine, but until we have some products on it we really don't know, all we have to go on is that AMD said they have 7nm product in house for testing. I bet Intel have had 10nm products in house for testing for ages.

 

[Rroff]

Supposedly TSMC is in volume production for gen 1 7nm products so we should see some such products coming to market well within this year.

 

[4K8KW10]

Intel 10nm assuming they get it working to spec and part of the reason they've had such problems with it is fairly close to GF 7nm - slightly worse in some areas slightly better in others.

EDIT: Mind you second gen TSMC 7nm if they can pull that off looks like trampling on both.

This TSMC won't be used by AMD and Intel for manufacture of Ryzens and Cores.
It will be used for smartphone chips, Radeons probably, GeForces and perhaps some AMD APUs.

 

[HeX]

Everybody keeps saying that the 7nm node is going fine, but until we have some products on it we really don't know, all we have to go on is that AMD said they have 7nm product in house for testing. I bet Intel have had 10nm products in house for testing for ages.

Difference is 7nm has been in testing for a while now, and all we keep getting are positive messages, and that they are on track for Zen2 Q2'19.

Compared to the Intel 10nm which has been in constant delays since 2015, and has now just been confirmed by Intel that it won't be being used until end Q4'19 - early Q1'20...

The messages from each camp couldn't be more different.

 

[4K8KW10]

The 7nm GloFo is IBM's process.

 

[bru]

The messages from each camp couldn't be more different.

Very true.

 

[4K8KW10]

Very true.

The question can not be more relevant than today:

Is It Time For Intel To Spin Off The Fabs? https://seekingalpha.com/article/3460166-time-intel-spin-fabs

 

[SiDeards73]

Problem is, AMD is still AMD, you can almost guarantee that they will in some way or another screw up, even if they release 7nm a year before Intel releases 10nm, AMD will invariably screw something up with the release.

Its been this way with pretty much everything they have released in the past few years, 290 - Stupidly bad reference cooler, hot and loud, Polaris PCIE Powerdraw issues, Fiji just flat out rubbish, Vega see Fiji and amplify, Ryzen has been good but still falls behind Intel in single threaded stuff etc...

AMD are still a "Nearly but not quite" kinda company, i love them but just wish they could release something so polished it just has no downsides.

If they do get 7nm Zen2 out the door before Intel does their 10nm, it will be good for them, judging by the Zen+ refresh im excited to see how 7nm Zen2 shapes up.

 

[4K8KW10]

Problem is, AMD is still AMD, you can almost guarantee that they will in some way or another screw up, even if they release 7nm a year before Intel releases 10nm, AMD will invariably screw something up with the release.

Its been this way with pretty much everything they have released in the past few years, 290 - Stupidly bad reference cooler, hot and loud, Polaris PCIE Powerdraw issues, Fiji just flat out rubbish, Vega see Fiji and amplify, Ryzen has been good but still falls behind Intel in single threaded stuff etc...

AMD are still a "Nearly but not quite" kinda company, i love them but just wish they could release something so polished it just has no downsides.

If they do get 7nm Zen2 out the door before Intel does their 10nm, it will be good for them, judging by the Zen+ refresh im excited to see how 7nm Zen2 shapes up.

Then, don't buy reference 290. Buy a 290 with aftermarket cooler.
Fiji is just fine. I would love to have one, today.
About Ryzen, does it really matter that one out of 16!!!! Ryzen threads is 95% the speed of a corresponding Core thread?!
I think we are trying to make up problems where they don't exist

 

[SiDeards73]

Then, don't buy reference 290. Buy a 290 with aftermarket cooler.
Fiji is just fine. I would love to have one, today.
About Ryzen, does it really matter that one out of 16!!!! Ryzen threads is 95% the speed of a corresponding Core thread?!
I think we are trying to make up problems where they don't exist

I owned a Reference and a Tri-X 290, i owned a 6950 and a 7870 prior to that as well both of those were not reference though.

My point is, AMD has great products but always seems to balls up atleast one thing on them, If they just polished the products a little more they would do their image the world of good.

And no Fiji was not fine, dont be a blind fanboy, Fiji was atrocious and still is, Vega is £150 MSRP higher than it should ever have been at release, and while i love my Ryzen 1700 as it is a clear and nice upgrade over my old 4770k, it would be nice if AMD could actually be within 1-2% of Intel single threaded performance, id actually trade off some of their MT performance for slightly better single threaded.

You need to get your head out of the clouds, im as much of an AMD fan as the next person, but im also not blinded enough to see where their shortfalls are, they need to fix their ability to screw a launch, we are at the point where we are saying "OK 7nm should be great, but where will AMD fail with this?"

 

[4K8KW10]

Neither Intel nor nVidia release polished products, too. Remember the GTX 480, or the 3.5GB GTX 970, or the Intel with Meltdown and Spectre bugs?

 

[bru]

The 480 and 970 issues are valid points, but to be fair the Intel spectre things were only found out about years after the products had been on the market.
Who knows what issues will turn up years down the line, or are you suggesting that Intel knew about these vulnerabilities years in advance and said nothing?

 

[DragonQ]

The 480 and 970 issues are valid points, but to be fair the Intel spectre things were only found out about years after the products had been on the market.
Who knows what issues will turn up years down the line, or are you suggesting that Intel knew about these vulnerabilities years in advance and said nothing?

We know they released at least Coffee Lake when they knew of the vulnerabilities.

 

[sideways14a]

All 3 of them have various issues, it seems AMDs ones are the only issues that seem to keep cropping up as excuses though.
For instance i am sick of hearing about crap AMD drivers, this is simply not true any more and has not been for ages now. They have a better driver interface than Nvidia and as for intel well god sakes....

Yes there is truth in there rather astonishing ability to muck up launches, this has indeed be ongoing for years and there is always something that takes the shine off of a good product launch with AMD but it has been improving.

 

[0h_no_not_again]

And no Fiji was not fine, dont be a blind fanboy, Fiji was atrocious and still is,

Agree.
I've still have a Tri-X Fury flashed to Fury X, and the card varies between great and utter *****. Most of my gaming is done in VR now, and AMD has completely given up on Fiji, despite it being their flagship not that long ago.

Essentially, it is inconsistent due to being a poor design, where AMD limped it along with optimisations.
I heard all sorts of anecdotes that it was a prototype to de-risk HBM that AMD's non-technical management decided to ship. I work in automotive electronics, specialising in FPGAs and ASICs, and I see this kind of (undeniably retarded) decision making all the time.

I think Fiji only made sense in HPC, where it performs quite brilliantly.

I would have liked to buy a Vega, but it is looking like a very similar show to Fiji...

 

[HeX]

Neither Intel nor nVidia release polished products, too. Remember the GTX 480, or the 3.5GB GTX 970, or the Intel with Meltdown and Spectre bugs?

Everyone remembers that great Intel CPU called Prescott right? and that brilliant nVidia GPU the FX5800... AMD resoundingly trampled all over Intel product wise for years right up until Core 2 arrived; and if it wasn't for Intel's backhanded dealings with OEMs to keep AMD's market share down they wouldn't be in the position they are now.

AMD's recent failings are down to Intel blocking revenue from OEMs, AMD paying to much for ATi and therefore having to bleed money from the CPU department R&D budget which created the abomination that was Bulldozer.

They've since cleaned house, restructured and refocused R&D funding and are making significant strides back to their former glory.

Hopefully they don't mess it up!

We just need them to sort out their GPU department now and stop refreshing the 290 every year!

 

[SiDeards73]

Everyone remembers that great Intel CPU called Prescott right? and that brilliant nVidia GPU the FX5800... AMD resoundingly trampled all over Intel product wise for years right up until Core 2 arrived; and if it wasn't for Intel's backhanded dealings with OEMs to keep AMD's market share down they wouldn't be in the position they are now.

AMD's recent failings are down to Intel blocking revenue from OEMs, AMD paying to much for ATi and therefore having to bleed money from the CPU department R&D budget which created the abomination that was Bulldozer.

They've since cleaned house, restructured and refocused R&D funding and are making significant strides back to their former glory.

Hopefully they don't mess it up!

We just need them to sort out their GPU department now and stop refreshing the 290 every year!

Im with you on this, they are making great strides with Ryzen, the GPU side of things has hit an all time low imho, they need to breathe some of the success they got from Zen into the GPU division, i know people working on Zen have moved across and i hope this manages to bring the GPU segment of the company back into line.

Polaris is actually a decent chip and does well in its market segment, Vega like i say is decent but priced far too high, i feel HBM is a needless expensive mistake on a GPU right now, Nvidia has shown that a GPU is not starved by GDDR.. i am at a loss as for why AMD keep persisting with HBM, its expensive, causes far too much heat and it seems its not actually any better than having GDDR bolted on instead. Infact the only bonus i can see of HBM is smaller card sizes and other than the token Fiji Nano and recent Vega 56 Nano from a partner, AMD has pretty much abandoned that idea. So why persist with a Tech thats clearly too pricey for the enthusiast and mainstream market? Imho this points at Vega GPU's being aimed primarily at the HEDT / Profession market and secondarily a gaming product, this is backed up by them releasing the cards for those segments first before the gaming sector. Until AMD can build cards that are purpose built for both segments separately this is going to be an issue, we are going to get cards that perform well in their intended market (HEDT / Pro) and perform much worse against the competitions gaming orientated products.

 

[Klo]

Im with you on this, they are making great strides with Ryzen, the GPU side of things has hit an all time low imho, they need to breathe some of the success they got from Zen into the GPU division, i know people working on Zen have moved across and i hope this manages to bring the GPU segment of the company back into line.

Polaris is actually a decent chip and does well in its market segment, Vega like i say is decent but priced far too high, i feel HBM is a needless expensive mistake on a GPU right now, Nvidia has shown that a GPU is not starved by GDDR.. i am at a loss as for why AMD keep persisting with HBM, its expensive, causes far too much heat and it seems its not actually any better than having GDDR bolted on instead. Infact the only bonus i can see of HBM is smaller card sizes and other than the token Fiji Nano and recent Vega 56 Nano from a partner, AMD has pretty much abandoned that idea. So why persist with a Tech thats clearly too pricey for the enthusiast and mainstream market? Imho this points at Vega GPU's being aimed primarily at the HEDT / Profession market and secondarily a gaming product, this is backed up by them releasing the cards for those segments first before the gaming sector. Until AMD can build cards that are purpose built for both segments separately this is going to be an issue, we are going to get cards that perform well in their intended market (HEDT / Pro) and perform much worse against the competitions gaming orientated products.

HBM has a major advantage of consuming a lot less power. Given that the Vega is already using more power than the Nvidia equivilent, if Vega used GDDR the power demand would be pretty insane.