Intel Core i7-11700K Review: Blasting Off with Rocket Lake

[humbug]

Tbh I hope Intel sort themselves out and then come 2023 when I may look at upgrading (based on DDR5, PCIE 5, 40% touted performance uplift alone in 2022 for AMD) I want to have options and not just forced AMD because Intel are still sucking. It was same issue when I got the 4790k, there wasn't another option out there to compete so choice was very limited with everything else.

A lack of competition is obviously a very bad thing, cite your only option being Intel back then.

But i think you can only have true competition when both in this duopoly are of roughly equal strength, right now Intel are still sufficiently bigger than AMD to buy themselves a denial of sales against AMD and AMD are are not sufficiently big enough to handle that let alone fight it.

I'd like to see AMD grow a chunk more yet.

 

[Curlyriff]

A lack of competition is obviously a very bad thing, cite your only option being Intel back then.

But i think you can only have true competition when both in this duopoly are of roughly equal strength, right not Intel are still sufficiently bigger than AMD to buy themselves a denial of sales against AMD and AMD are are not sufficiently big enough to handle that let alone fight it.

I'm like to see AMD grow a chunk more yet.

Well I personally don't think scale of operation needs to be even to compete at the same level. That certainly isn't the case in any other market either. However it would mean getting parity of market share wouldn't likely happen but again that isn't really any reflectiveness on anything in terms of options, competitiveness.

I mean if you look at VW group compared to Ford motors, they compete in every segment against one another, both have subjectively better products and compete against one another and yet Ford Group is only 67% the size of VW group. So I would say when you are comparing a $45 billion to $67 billion company they are not of roughly equal strength either. Doesn't mean Ford wont compete and doesn't do well, just like AMD in the current situation. However with that yes I do understand there is a larger disparity which isn't good in terms of AMD/Intel but this market share increase for AMD is happening and brand image improving each release so it will get there naturally if they keep moving forward. I believe the trend will continue to naturally balance out even if Intel became truly competitive again come 2022/2023.

 

[humbug]

Well I personally don't think scale of operation needs to be even to compete at the same level. That certainly isn't the case in any other market either. However it would mean getting parity of market share wouldn't likely happen but again that isn't really any reflectiveness on anything in terms of options, competitiveness.

I mean if you look at VW group compared to Ford motors, they compete in every segment against one another, both have subjectively better products and compete against one another and yet Ford Group is only 67% the size of VW group. So I would say when you are comparing a $45 billion to $67 billion company they are not of roughly equal strength either. Doesn't mean Ford wont compete and doesn't do well, just like AMD in the current situation. However with that yes I do understand there is a larger disparity which isn't good in terms of AMD/Intel but this market share increase for AMD is happening and brand image improving each release so it will get there naturally if they keep moving forward. I believe the trend will continue to naturally balance out even if Intel became truly competitive again come 2022/2023.

I worries me because this isn't the first time AMD have been competitive, in fact they were in a much stronger potion in the late 1990's and early 2000's, for gamers the default option was AMD, OEM's had AMD options just as much as they had Intel options, Data Centre just wanted Opteron.

At the time it looked like AMD was ascending to become the dominant X86 player, in around about 2004 i think it was AMD / Intel market share hit roughly 50/50, Intel saw the writing on the wall and started their campaign of buying market share away from AMD, AMD sales fell off a cliff for no apparent reason, i even remember when AMD offered Dell a million CPU's for free and Dell turning them down, because they were getting their CPU's from Intel, for free, and being paid near a billion $ a year not to use AMD's CPU's in their products, that started the litigation with Intel, which they won but what they were awarded was chump change compared with the amount of money they lost, then the finatial crisis hit in 2008, AMD had not been able to improve on their Athlon line for years due to lack of funds and then the huge Bulldozer mistake happened in 2011.

AMD came to with in an inch of going bankrupt, i don't want to see that happen again.

 

[LePhuronn]

...unless you aren't gaming and are using the PCI-E 4.0 for something useful.

So a 5800X for less money and better multicore perf?

 

[LePhuronn]

AVX12...but also crushes AMD performance wise, as they don't support it.

That is a new level of desperate straw-clutching. You're really just embarrassing yourself now.

 

[muziqaz]

That is a new level of desperate straw-clutching. You're really just embarrassing yourself now.

But its true
remember Bulldozer with XOP instructions crushing the competition...

 

[humbug]

But its true
remember Bulldozer with XOP instructions crushing the competition...

By the time AVX 512 is even beginning to become a thing that's used AMD will have it.

Zen 4 will have it.

 

[LePhuronn]

It's true by a technicality it's like the Nvidia camp saying Turing's ray tracing capabilities crush Navi's because Navi doesn't support it.

You can't compete against something that doesn't exist.

 

[humbug]

It is straw clutching because its some numbers on a slide they can hold up and say "look, this bar bigger than AMD, is better" but it isn't going benefit you who are holding those slides up.

As @LePhuronn said AMD don't support AVX 512, but they will with Zen 4, and it still wont be anything that's going to be of use to us.

 

[Curlyriff]

I worries me because this isn't the first time AMD have been competitive, in fact they were in a much stronger potion in the late 1990's and early 2000's, for gamers the default option was AMD, OEM's had AMD options just as much as they had Intel options, Data Centre just wanted Opteron.

At the time it looked like AMD was ascending to become the dominant X86 player, in around about 2004 i think it was AMD / Intel market share hit roughly 50/50, Intel saw the writing on the wall and started their campaign of buying market share away from AMD, AMD sales fell off a cliff for no apparent reason, i even remember when AMD offered Dell a million CPU's for free and Dell turning them down, because they were getting their CPU's from Intel, for free, and being paid near a billion $ a year not to use AMD's CPU's in their products, that started the litigation with Intel, which they won but what they were awarded was chump change compared with the amount of money they lost, then the finatial crisis hit in 2008, AMD had not been able to improve on their Athlon line for years due to lack of funds and then the huge Bulldozer mistake happened in 2011.

AMD came to with in an inch of going bankrupt, i don't want to see that happen again.

The big difference there is Intel acted illegally and were fined for doing such. That isn't generally what we should be considering and I think the awareness and such of anything of that nature happening again is more prevalent than back then. That isn't directly how the general market works though.

 

[Curlyriff]

By the time AVX 512 is even beginning to become a thing that's used AMD will have it.

Zen 4 will have it.

Hey, hang on. AVX 512 is a thing, it has been since 2016. It isn't widely adopted or used outside of HPC/Machine learning but it deffo a "thing" It just needs to be better utilised in the areas it works well in and not be as fragmented as it currently is.

 

[humbug]

Its not a thing for us, is my point

The big difference there is Intel acted illegally and were fined for doing such. That isn't generally what we should be considering and I think the awareness and such of anything of that nature happening again is more prevalent than back then. That isn't directly how the general market works though.

Intel couldn't pay people not to use AMD, that was and still is illegal, its the reason AMD won the case.

There are legal ways to do it, you can offer cashback incentives, buy our CPU's now and get 80% back in 6 months, perfectly legal and i don't have a problem with that, that's just business.

But when you have 20 Billion $ to burn every year and your competition only has 2 Billion $ to burn every year you can quite easily start a war of cashback attrition and crush your competition, and its legal.

I want AMD to have a much bigger war chest than they currently do.

 

[humbug]

Think of it like owning nuclear weapons.

The only thing that stops you from annihilating your enemy is the assurance of self annihilation.

 

[g67575]

A 5800X £50-100 price drop would wreck Intel's higher end Rocket Lake CPUs, I think. Somehow though, I think AMD will keep milking their clear advantage this year, especially with the global chip shortages.

Intel will keep selling CPUs due to people siding with Intel / ignorance, and maybe take a hit this year.

This appears to be 'the plan'. Their Tiger Lake laptops should still sell well.

 

[g67575]

Does anyone know what the 1:1 memory controller limit is on the Ryzen 5000 series? Do I need to buy a specific motherboard chipset?

I'd like to build a DDR 4 4000mhz system, without the IMC limit. What was the limit on Comet Lake CPUs?

 

[humbug]

Does anyone know what the 1:1 memory controller limit is on the Ryzen 5000 series? Do I need to buy a specific motherboard chipset?

I'd like to build a DDR 4 4000mhz system, without the IMC limit. What was the limit on Comet Lake CPUs?

I think it default to 1:2 at above 3600Mhz but you can set it to 1:1 at any speed manually, you might get lucky and its stable at 3800Mhz 1:1 i think i have seen people run them like that.

Any half decent B550 Board or above, mine has it.

 

[humbug]

Edit: i don't think anyone knows yet what the 1:1 limit on Rocket Lake is, i wouldn't be surprised if Comet Lake and its predecessors defaulted to 1:2 at a set Mhz, you just didn't know about it and they are only giving you the option now in Rocket Lake to over ride that because AMD do.

 

[muziqaz]

A 5800X £50-100 price drop would wreck Intel's Rocket Lake launch, I think. Somehow though, I think AMD will keep milking their clear advantage this year, especially with the global chip shortages.

Why wouldn't they? Intel self destructed with their own Rocket in the lake, why in the hell would AMD reduce their own prices when they are still selling loads at current pricing? I understand when prices are too high compared to competition, but when your product wins in majority if not all of the tests, and you are selling tons, why would you drop the price?

 

[g67575]

If the Ryzen 5000 series can't handle 1:1 at 4000mhz, that's quite disappointing...

I wonder if this will be possible soon?

 

[muziqaz]

If the Ryzen 5000 series can't handle 1:1 at 4000mhz, that's quite disappointing...

I wonder if this will be possible soon?

Why is this disappointing? Do you use your PC for a p*****g contest or do you actually do something useful with it? 4000Mhz memory on Ryzen 5000 series (except 5950x) makes no sense and has zero benefits.