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Intel Core i7-11700K Review: Blasting Off with Rocket Lake

Chill dude, it's mostly because I'd like a system built this year to compare well to a DDR5 system, which should be available in 2022.

I wonder if the 3733mhz 1:1 support on Zen 3 explains some of the advantage AMD has vs current Intel CPUs?
 
AMD set prices in the DIY space now, its probably not a good idea for AMD to get too aggressive with pricing because Intel have more resources to win a price war, Intel are already mad at AMD for forcing them to up their mainstream core count and killing off their HEDT line.
 
g67575 said:
Chill dude, it's mostly because I'd like a system built this year to compare well to a DDR5 system, which should be available in 2022.
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still makes no sense. You essentially taking slower 4000Mhz set up which will limit your PBO boosting, instead of faster more responsive 3600Mhz RAM setup which would leave more headroom for PBO tweaking, just to have your system compare to some imaginary DDR5 system few years in the future :/

For what it's worth your 4000MHz RAM system from today in 2 years will look like how bulldozer looked like after Zen release
 
He's right, there is no benefit to running 4000Mhz vs 3600Mhz 1:1 ratio or not, it make no difference to the gaming performance, that benefit tops out at 3600Mhz, its better to run 3600Mhz with tighter timings than 4000Mhz. :)
 
I think it makes perfect sense, there's a clear difference vs 3200mhz and 3600mhz, running at 1:1. should be a similar jump up, with 4000mhz or higher.

I think the differences in CAS latency tend to be over stated, for higher frequency RAM. Some open world games already see significant fps boosts running at 3600mhz.

It's funny how pointing this out is so controversial lol. The same thing will happen with DDR5 RAM.

I suspect we will have to agree to differ on this.

It's weird though, the DDR4 products above 3600mhz are basically pointless(right now), wonder why they even sell them?
 
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g67575 said:
I think it makes perfect sense, there's a clear difference vs 3200mhz and 3600mhz, running at 1:1. should be a similar jump up, with 4000mhz or higher.

I think the differences in CAS latency tend to be over stated, for higher frequency RAM. Some open world games already see significant fps boosts running at 3600mhz.

It's funny how pointing this out is so controversial lol. The same thing will happen with DDR5 RAM.

I suspect we will have to agree to differ on this.
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You are talking about your assumption instead of the fact. The facts are Ryzen 5000 does not benefit, and in most cases loses performance going 4000Mhz RAM. 3600Mhz is easiest best case scenario, while 3800Mhz has couple of wins over 3600Mhz.
5000 series sees benefit from 3200 to 3600mhz because it needs that bandwidth, more like IF frequency, for most part. Beyond 3600Mhz CPU has enough IF frequency already, all you do is introduce extra latency with looser timings
 
g67575 said:
There's this from 2019 :)

I assume they are running aren't running at 1:1 for the IMC.

The DDR 4000mhz is the same speed or faster in these games:
https://www.techspot.com/article/1171-ddr4-4000-mhz-performance/page3.html
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This is for an Intel CPU.

This is an X-Ray of a 5800X

The smaller chip on the right contains the cores, L1, L2 and L3 Cache
The larger chip on the left contains the IMC and Infinity Fabric (IF) Bus, as well as all your PCIe lanes, USB controllers and so on...

As you can see the IMC is outside of the Cores die, anything, which is everything, that moves between the IMC and cores is shunted through an IF Bus, the faster that IF Bus the faster that communication, if you try and run the IMC at 2000Mhz but the IF Bus can only manage 1800Mhz then you're limited to 1800MNhz on the IMC, unless you run the IF Bus at 1000Mhz then you can run the IMC at 2000Mhz (1:2 Ratio) but then your core to IMC communication is 800Mhz slower than it would be if the IMC was only running at 1800Mhz, that's where you get a latency increase and lower performance.

Intel run a Monolithic die, No IF Bus.

Which is better? well that depends on what you need from your architecture, For AMD its about scalability and plug it in lego like design, AMD can have a DDR5 Ryzen 5000, all they need to do is plug in a DDR5 IMC, the modular design also means they can make CPU with core counts far beyond what Intel can. AMD can just plug them in, endlessly...

The drawback is joining all this up, there is a latency penalty. yet despite this AMD's CPU's are still faster than Intel's so its not a problem.

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The 4650G I have easily does 1:1 at 4000MHz and above, my RAM seems to top out before the CPU however. :D

g67575 said:
I'd like a system built this year to compare well to a DDR5 system, which should be available in 2022.
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Impossible to predict the future, it might perform as well as a potato in comparison to DDR5 if all you are looking at if Mem Freq.
 
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g67575 said:
A 5800X £50-100 price drop would wreck Intel's higher end Rocket Lake CPUs, I think. Somehow though, I think AMD will keep milking their clear advantage this year, especially with the global chip shortages.

Intel will keep selling CPUs due to people siding with Intel / ignorance, and maybe take a hit this year.

This appears to be 'the plan'. Their Tiger Lake laptops should still sell well.
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I don't think it actually helps AMD to increase sales if they can only achieve it by cutting into their profits, they need to maintain both otherwise it's just a repeat of the last time they had the better chips out.
 
Has anyone managed to run at DDR 4 4000mhz 1:1, with the AGESA V2 PI 1.2.0.0v (or later) BIOS update? I think you would generally need 4000mhz RAM for this to work, but some have managed it on 3600mhz...

It does make me wonder if future ZEN 3 CPUs might officially support 4000mhz 1:1.
 
Journey said:
The 4650G I have easily does 1:1 at 4000MHz and above, my RAM seems to top out before the CPU however. :D



Impossible to predict the future, it might perform as well as a potato in comparison to DDR5 if all you are looking at if Mem Freq.
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Your CPU has on die mem controller which seems to be miles more flexible than what is available on chiplet based men controllers
 
g67575 said:
Has anyone managed to run at DDR 4 4000mhz 1:1, with the AGESA V2 PI 1.2.0.0v (or later) BIOS update? I think you would generally need 4000mhz RAM for this to work, but some have managed it on 3600mhz...

It does make me wonder if future ZEN 3 CPUs might officially support 4000mhz 1:1.
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It is a pure lottery and stacked against you. It mostly depends on each individual CPU. My 5950x can't clock even 3600Mhz 1:1 stable with whatever voltages I set to RAM. People these days even waste time RMAing their 5000 series because their CPUs do not handle 3600+MHz RAM :/
4000mhz RAM on Ryzen is same as 6900xt. Costs too much has zero benefits
 
Minstadave said:
I wonder if it's simply that the APUs are monolithic dies so the IMC is 7nm whereas on the normal CPUs the IO die is 14nm or if the IMC is substantially different.
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Doubt process tech has anything to do with it, previous gen Ryzen a d APUs were on same process tech and APUs were always handling higher RAM frequencies better even back then. I think mem controller in APU just got more attention from designers. And obviously APU GPUs tend to adore extra bandwidth. Whatever you give them they will take and ask for more
 
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