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Intel Core Ultra 9 285k 'Arrow Lake' Discussion/News ("15th gen") on LGA-1851

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Skymont looking good:

Looks likes zen5 will be going up against Intel's E cores at this rate
There are claims in various flavours of 'this time Intel will put AMD back in their box' every time Intel publish a slide deck. But all that's actually happened is Intel have got to the point now that they are pushing so much power into their CPU's just to keep up with AMD that they are literally burning up the CPU's out of the box with in a few months of use.

At least AMD never pushed Bulldozer to that point....

If the way Intel talk about their performance gains everytime they publish a slide deck for a new CPU was true they would be 100X faster than they actually are by now, these slides are for people who want to believe AMD just keep getting lucky and Intel finally ended their streak of bad luck.

We believe in you Pat!
 
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G J

G J

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I think it was abit of both trying to compete with AMD and desperation to make 14th gen look better than 13th gen as a couple of 100mhz is not enough as any K 13th gen can easy bridge this gap and its cheeper.

Its too early to say but atm I think Arrowlake/new AM5 will be close to each other but this time though its Intels turn with a new platform with a new set of motherboards that will be expensive as AMD have a motherboards that have been out a while with second hand options.
 
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I think it was abit of both trying to compete with AMD and desperation to make 14th gen look better than 13th gen as a couple of 100mhz is not enough as any K 13th gen can easy bridge this gap and its cheeper.

Its too early to say but atm I think Arrowlake/new AM5 will be close to each other but this time though its Intels turn with a new platform with a new set of motherboards that will be expensive as AMD have a motherboards that have been out a while with second hand options.

Thing is Zen 3 was not just a refresh of Zen 2, Zen 4 was not just a refresh of Zen 3 and Zen 5 is not just a refresh of Zen 4, they are all architecturally different, 12'th gen, 13'th gen and 14'th gen, they are all the same and when your competitor is gaining around 15% in IPC alone every generation, because they are architecturally new; you just rehashing the same architecture over and over again (typically Intel) have to turn to adding cores and clock speeds to keep up, that requires more power.

AMD are ahead because they worked for it, and they deserve it.
 
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Thing is Zen 3 was not just a refresh of Zen 2, Zen 4 was not just a refresh of Zen 3 and Zen 5 is not just a refresh of Zen 4, they are all architecturally different, 12'th gen, 13'th gen and 14'th gen, they are all the same and when your competitor is gaining around 15% in IPC alone every generation, because they are architecturally new; you just rehashing the same architecture over and over again (typically Intel) have to turn to adding cores and clock speeds to keep up, that requires more power.

AMD are ahead because they worked for it, and they deserve it.

Usually by cranking voltage to squeeze more mhz, although gen on gen the memory controllers have gotten better but the difference in performance is very little which is why i ended up going from 12700K to 13700K as the performance gain from 12th to 13th is a lot greater compared to 13th to 14th. Thinking back i wish i had waited and jumped on AM5 but meh, i had fun regardless.
 
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Thing is Zen 3 was not just a refresh of Zen 2, Zen 4 was not just a refresh of Zen 3 and Zen 5 is not just a refresh of Zen 4, they are all architecturally different, 12'th gen, 13'th gen and 14'th gen, they are all the same and when your competitor is gaining around 15% in IPC alone every generation, because they are architecturally new; you just rehashing the same architecture over and over again (typically Intel) have to turn to adding cores and clock speeds to keep up, that requires more power.

AMD are ahead because they worked for it, and they deserve it.
Intel always advertise like I’d imagine a child would. They’ve said recently that their new chips would compete with the new ARM processors, which must be a joke because Intel are anything but power efficient.
 
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Usually by cranking voltage to squeeze more mhz, although gen on gen the memory controllers have gotten better but the difference in performance is very little which is why i ended up going from 12700K to 13700K as the performance gain from 12th to 13th is a lot greater compared to 13th to 14th. Thinking back i wish i had waited and jumped on AM5 but meh, i had fun regardless.
13'th gen is nice and as good as that architecture got, which is to say it is good. Its the one to get if you're going Intel.

14'th gen is just desperate and should be avoided.
 
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RSR

RSR

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Usually by cranking voltage to squeeze more mhz, although gen on gen the memory controllers have gotten better but the difference in performance is very little which is why i ended up going from 12700K to 13700K as the performance gain from 12th to 13th is a lot greater compared to 13th to 14th. Thinking back i wish i had waited and jumped on AM5 but meh, i had fun regardless.

Alder Lake (12th Gen) to Raptor Lake (13th Gen) did have a small performance bump, as the main gains came from the higher core clocks and the increased cache. The IO area also increased performance as it brought up the base speed on the RAM side plus overall 13th / 14th Gen have far better IMC's. Raptor Lake to Raptor Lake-R was more of a node refinement.

I seem to be able to push my 14900KS more than my 13900KS but that's probably just a refinement feature (Better Silicon). If you had an Alder Lake CPU and wanted to upgrade outside of the 14900K/KS the 14700K makes the most sense.
 
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IIRC the arrow lake NPU is the same as that used in existing mobile products.

i.e. about one third of the copilot requirement of 45 TOPS - and therefore worthless.

regardless of the idiocy of the curent 'ai' applications that use this i do think that the hardware is worthwhile - but not if it falls below the base performance threshold.

Apple are demanding 35 TOPS.
Microsoft are going for 45 TOPS.

Anything with ~17 TOPS is a toy.
 
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NPU only. The iGPU will also have TOPS to throw around.
Personally, I’d happily buy a CPU that was physically barred from copilot doing anything with it. Or whatever other app Microsoft want to scam information with.
 

RSR

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NPUs are largely pointless in a desktop CPU, as the whole point of an NPU is to offload those complex tasks onto a low-power bit of silicon rather than burn though battery with the CPU and GPU. As there are no power constraints on a desktop, GPUs will the the large driving force on that.
 
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NPUs are largely pointless in a desktop CPU, as the whole point of an NPU is to offload those complex tasks onto a low-power bit of silicon rather than burn though battery with the CPU and GPU. As there are no power constraints on a desktop, GPUs will the the large driving force on that.

Depends if GPU’s can offer more reasonable performance per watt/price ratio. I think for 90% of situations, a CPU integrated option will be the batter solution.
 
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NPUs are largely pointless in a desktop CPU, as the whole point of an NPU is to offload those complex tasks onto a low-power bit of silicon rather than burn though battery with the CPU and GPU. As there are no power constraints on a desktop, GPUs will the the large driving force on that.
Monetising AI has been a challenge for every company that is offering an AI service as the cost of paying for electricity to run the servers is prohibitive, one estimate from Livemint put the cost electrical cost on ChatGPT 4 at 3.6Kj to process compared to 1.08Kj for a Google search.. I suspect the drive to add NPU's is from companies wanting to shift the burden of calculating AI tasks to the end user and away from remote servers to save money.
 
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Alder Lake (12th Gen) to Raptor Lake (13th Gen) did have a small performance bump, as the main gains came from the higher core clocks and the increased cache. The IO area also increased performance as it brought up the base speed on the RAM side plus overall 13th / 14th Gen have far better IMC's. Raptor Lake to Raptor Lake-R was more of a node refinement.

I seem to be able to push my 14900KS more than my 13900KS but that's probably just a refinement feature (Better Silicon). If you had an Alder Lake CPU and wanted to upgrade outside of the 14900K/KS the 14700K makes the most sense.

Indeed, everything about the 13700K makes sense in terms of upgrade from alder lake from performance bump from faster clocks to improved IO and memory controller and cache. The 14700k only makes sense if you needed the additional e cores from the 13700k otherwise yes i wouldn't go that route especially when the 13700k can be had for quite abit cheaper.
 
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