Intel had 22 core chips coming out of TSMC at 80watts. Intel win by default on the desktops, so the focus remains elsewhere.
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Intel Core Ultra 9 285k 'Arrow Lake' Discussion/News ("15th gen") on LGA-1851
- Thread starter Dave2150
- Start date
Intel had 22 core chips coming out of TSMC at 80watts. Intel win by default on the desktops, so the focus remains elsewhere.
Intel Arrow Lake-S to feature Xe-LPG architecture without “Plus”, Arrow Lake-H gets the Xe-LPG+ variant
Source: https://videocardz.com/newz/intel-a...out-plus-arrow-lake-h-gets-the-xe-lpg-variant
Boring iGPU updates. Be nice if this iGPU can do 4k 120hz 4:4:4 on desktop though, would obviously require HDMI2.1 port in motherboard or DP 1.4 with DSC.
Hoping for performance leaks of CPU performance soon, longer it takes to see leaks the less likely Arrow Lake is to launch this year!
really happy with iGPU updates
not because i want to game on it, but just because I can get a new work laptop that actually supports my monitor at home - I'm currently stuck with 59hz refresh on my home monitor when it can go up to 175hz, because the Intel iGPU in this Dell XPS can't go higher than that on my Ultrawide monitor
not because i want to game on it, but just because I can get a new work laptop that actually supports my monitor at home - I'm currently stuck with 59hz refresh on my home monitor when it can go up to 175hz, because the Intel iGPU in this Dell XPS can't go higher than that on my Ultrawide monitor
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Yeah, I'm having to use an old 3090 in my work machine (13900k) just to have 4k 120hz, as 60hz feels so horrible when you're used to 120, even on desktop.
My 7950x3D gaming rig can't do 4k 120hz on it's iGPU either. Well technically it can, but means using 4:2:2 chroma subsampling, which is horrible for text and work.
I've been too lazy to lookup what the iGPU in Zen5 will be capable of, hopefully it can do 4k 120hz 4:4:4 as well - but then again will the existing motherboard hdmi ports handle this? We'll see
Intel CEO Discloses TSMC Production Details: N3 for Arrow Lake & N3B for Lunar Lake
Intel CEO Pat Gelsinger engaged with press/media representatives following the conclusion of his IFS Direct Connect 2024 keynote speech—when asked about Team Blue's ongoing relationship with TSMC, he confirmed that their manufacturing agreement has advanced from "5 nm to 3 nm." According to a...
Techpowerup said:
Boring news! I really hoped we'd see performance leaks from engineering samples before March. If Arrow Lake does launch in 2024, I think it'll be delayed to Q4 at this rate.
Zen5 will have a field day!
Caporegime
Intel CEO Discloses TSMC Production Details: N3 for Arrow Lake & N3B for Lunar Lake
Intel CEO Pat Gelsinger engaged with press/media representatives following the conclusion of his IFS Direct Connect 2024 keynote speech—when asked about Team Blue's ongoing relationship with TSMC, he confirmed that their manufacturing agreement has advanced from "5 nm to 3 nm." According to a...www.techpowerup.com
Boring news! I really hoped we'd see performance leaks from engineering samples before March. If Arrow Lake does launch in 2024, I think it'll be delayed to Q4 at this rate.
Zen5 will have a field day!
Its really weird.... Intel are going all in on TSMC, and being very vocal about that, while at the same time Pat is talking up wanting to make Nvidia and AMD chips.
For context Nvidia and AMD also use TSMC, why would they, especially AMD use Intel's foundries while they don't even use their own foundies for their most advanced products? If they don't make their own products on their own foundies, are instead making them at TSMC, why would AMD move from TSMC to Intel?
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Intel CEO Discloses TSMC Production Details: N3 for Arrow Lake & N3B for Lunar Lake
Intel CEO Pat Gelsinger engaged with press/media representatives following the conclusion of his IFS Direct Connect 2024 keynote speech—when asked about Team Blue's ongoing relationship with TSMC, he confirmed that their manufacturing agreement has advanced from "5 nm to 3 nm." According to a...
Boring news! I really hoped we'd see performance leaks from engineering samples before March. If Arrow Lake does launch in 2024, I think it'll be delayed to Q4 at this rate.
Zen5 will have a field day!
+/- 5% CPU performance. 10-15% better IGP performance.
I know, I’m really out on a limb…
Could be close to the mark, noticed over the years when intel have something they are quite proud of there are leaks all over the net and when there's next no leaks its less than impressive.
Perhaps Intel just want to use their significant buying power to take a large % of available supply of TSMC wafers from AMD and other competition. The more wafers Intel buy, the less wafers there are for AMD and others. This may then force the competition to buy less advanced wafers from Intel's custom foundry's.
Muscle everyone else out of TSMC and monopolise the market with crappy hardware. I like it!
Soldato
Hopefully everyone goes to Intel. It might remove America's world policing of TSMC.
Caporegime
Nvidia could buy Intel with Jenson's pocket shrapnel.
Nvidia: $1.95 Tr and rising.
AMD: $312 Bn and rising.
Intel: $182 Bn and falling.
A couple of years ago AMD spent more than $50 Bn on buying two companies.
When it comes to buying power even AMD crush Intel.
Intel just want some of that dosh.
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Intel can still buy capacity from TSMC that AMD could have otherwise bought, forcing AMD to have supply issues or use Intel foundry.
If this does happen, surely regulation agencies will get involved.
Caporegime
If Intel want to get in to a buying power war with AMD Intel would lose.
Seriously these arguments that Intel could bully AMD out of anything these days is daft, they have already tried with servers and lost.
AMD market cap now $330 Bn, up from $312 Bn 12 hours ago.
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These valuations don't tell the full picture. It's easy to look at that and be fooled into thinking AMD is now the big dog over Intel. These high market valuations for amd and Nvidia are based on investors expecting some future growth that will deliver profits and not actually based on current financials - for example Intels annual revenue is double AMD's so Intels value should be double AMDs at $600 billion but it's not because AMD has a hype train. Fundamentally if you only look at the real financials, AMD looks like a meme stock, as does Nvidia
Caporegime
Its what those investors put in.
The whole point is you give them money by buying shares, the company can then use that money to do advertisements, R&D new or improved products, buy up other companies, what ever it is they think they need to do to grow as a company.
The more people buy in the higher the price per share goes, the more people pull out the price drops.
Now, there is a potential problem with that, if lets say AMD use $180 Bn of their $330 Bn pot to buy Intel then they need to be sure that the people who put that money in to start with don't suddenly pull it out, AMD would have to repay them and they only have about $68 Bn in cash reserves and fungible assets, i say only but that very healthy.
So its wise to only spend as much as you know you can repay or you think you know you're going to grow and with that absorb the costs, otherwise it becomes a lot like a ponzi scheme where you're using the money from new investors to pay back exiting investors.
That's why AMD almost went bankrupt between 2011 and 2017, pretty much all investors pulled their money out, the share price hit rock bottom at under $2 a share and AMD first had to make high interest loans to pay them and eventually sell assets, including their 1969 campus, that was the last thing they sold and i have no doubt that really hurt.
A beautiful art deco building, now gone...
They survived, just.
Now, yes they are stronger than Intel, Independently from their investment pot AMD have nearly half the value of Intel in cash and cash equivalents, they are also debt free, or a kin to, they have a couple of Bn $ to keep a credit line open, Intel have debts of around $90 Bn, 50% of their value in debt, Intel are down sizing and selling off business left and right and begging for government bailouts.
Meanwhile.
Since 2017 AMD have acquired:
Xilinx for $49 Bn.
Pensando for $3 Bn.
Mipsology AI for an undisclosed amount.
Nod.AI for an undisclosed amount.
Since acquiring Xilinx AMD market cap has more than doubled.
Over the last few years Intel have gone to war with AMD trying to keep them out of Datacentre, in 2017 Intel's top end Datacentre chips cost $50,000 or $60,000, now they barley break $10,000 and AMD are even cheaper, AMD make a profit on those while Intel don't, trying to financially muscle AMD out of datacentre is what broke Intel, having failed to do that now Intel are spending billions they don't have trying to take what little market share AMD have in dGPU's, that's also proving far more difficult than they anticipated, they are actually taking market share from Nvidia, not AMD, and dGPU are hard man, who knew.... if it continues on in this vain its Nvidia, not AMD who will see them as a threat and then its Nvidia who start a war with Intel.
Nvidia will squash them like a bug.
The smart thing for Intel to do would be to stop competing with Nvidia and AMD and concentrate on their fab business, Pat is utterly deluded to think that AMD would give Intel a single penny to make any products for them while they are competing with them, Intel's need to continue this war with AMD is literally killing them.
We need Intel to make a successful foundry.
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There's a finite capacity of chips for sale from TSMC though. Apple gets the most advanced and greatest quantity as they pay the most. The rest? Up for grabs from highest bidder.
Even if Intel only buy a few thousand wafers - this will mean less wafers for AMD.
I'm not an expert in terms of the exact dynamics of purchasing power of both Intel/AMD, though the metric below seems important:
Intel cash on Hand as of December 2023 : $25.03 B https://companiesmarketcap.com/intel/cash-on-hand/#:~:text=Cash on Hand as of December 2023 : $25.03 B
AMD cash on Hand as of December 2023 : $5.77 B https://companiesmarketcap.com/amd/cash-on-hand/#:~:text=Cash on Hand as of,accessible money a business has.
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Caporegime
"Cash and cash equivalents" it depends on what is defined as a "cash equivalent" and what the percentage make up of that is.
On a side note, its kinda odd that when you look at the chart for both Intel and AMD there is a sudden spike around 2021, was that Biden's US chip grant thing?
Whatever, Intel could spend that continuing its war with AMD and still lose and then not have any left to make a world leading foundry, its up to them but i hope they stop with this nonsense.
If that chart is the Biden thing Intel have already spent half of it and making chips at TSMC.
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Caporegime
Literally giving that money to their competitor. So Biden gives Intel $50 Bn to make a world leading fab to compete with TSMC and Intel give it to TSMC because *GRRRRR AMD*
Someone sack Pat
Someone sack Pat
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