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Intel has a Pretty Big Problem..

Rroff said:
It is a weird one, there are 1-2 companies running a lot of 13th and 14th gen chips on W680 boards without MCE, etc. who are reporting very high failure rates but they are not entirely unique in what they are doing and there are loads of other companies doing similar stuff who've not said anything, which they almost certainly would have if they were experiencing failures of that magnitude, and others where someone has commented but only seeing a small number of failures.

My instincts are it is individual CPUs where one or more cores are regularly hitting over 1.5v improperly for the current frequency and thermal situation (doesn't necessarily mean high temperatures), likely due to a faulty algorithm, which are the ones which are failing, possibly there was a bad batch of those but it doesn't cleanly cover the situation above unless there are pools of tray CPUs affected and a fragmented number of retail. Also a total unknown at this point how far it goes and/or if every chip is affected and will degrade prematurely or not.

There also seems to be 3 or 4 issues involved - aside from a supposedly limited batch of chips with the via oxidation problem, there seems to be some older chips with a voltage linked instability problem out the box, which Intel tried to address with a microcode update which then seems to have exposed this issue with a different set of chips.
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Agreed, i still remember that dodgy 13700K i had that needed absurd amount of voltage to run even close to stock but i cannot say whether that was due to this fault/issue or whether it was a chip that someone had used for extreme overclocking.

The annoyance of all this is trying to find out what the main cause is, if you have one of these broken chips in hand.

The first microcode fix actually made it worse as it just injected more voltage to try and keep those already degrading chips working at stock which in turn caused further and faster degradation.
 
G J said:
Some people are absolutly loving this drama esp the Intel haters and having to sift through all the trolling and off topic to find any actual information/ discussion about this topic is tiresome so I had taken a break from this subforum from Friday until today and skimmed though what I've missed and it's still full of the same ****.

The mainstream tech tube space amongst some truth is full of fear mongering while pretending to care about consumers.... yeah they do but its below farming drama for clicks and money even Gamer's Nexus who put out a great video had to spoil it with his interpertaion of events so half of his video is whatever though his speak with me Intel or I'm cutting you off reaks of jilted ex lover vibes. His ego and inflated self importance is off the charts.
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see you next week then
 
McManicMan said:
No problems here, have updated bios to latest and using intel profiles where as before was using ASUS settings. Not noticed any diffidence in gaming or desktop usage, but there is noticeable cinebench drop but not so much in 3dMark. Personally at present not bothered and still have a 2yr warrenty with OCUK anyway
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I tried the intel profile on my 13700k and boost clocks dropped and power usage and temps increased. Gone back to the Asus settings. Currently at 4500+ hours of mixed usage without issue.
 
So nothing really new then :s

Intel claiming it doesn't affect turbo frequencies is a bit hand waving - doesn't mean it won't reduce performance.
 
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G J said:
The mainstream tech tube space amongst some truth is full of fear mongering while pretending to care about consumers.... yeah they do but its below farming drama for clicks and money even Gamer's Nexus who put out a great video had to spoil it with his interpertaion of events so half of his video is whatever though his speak with me Intel or I'm cutting you off reaks of jilted ex lover vibes. His ego and inflated self importance is off the charts.
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He does get off putting when he rambles and he didn't even explain that cutting people off stuff properly.

When he was complaining about Intel's statements and their editing, I think it is easy to understand as just employees making statements that they hadn't been briefed properly to make and then realising they screwed up and editing it.

I know that's not an excuse, because Intel's communication should be so much better, but it made way more sense to me as an explanation (especially having worked in/witnessed these kind of chaotic and poorly managed environments) than Steve's corporate conspiracy angle (and heck, I love a good corporate conspiracy :p ).

That said, he IS performing an important service for consumers by letting everyone know and e.g. we would likely have never known about the manufacturing fault, or the 13th-14th gen CPUs been given an extended warranty, if it wasn't for people like Steve making a lot of noise.
 
Tetras said:
I know that's not an excuse, because Intel's communication should be so much better, but it made way more sense to me as an explanation (especially having worked in/witnessed these kind of chaotic and poorly managed environments) than Steve's corporate conspiracy angle (and heck, I love a good corporate conspiracy :p ).
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If it is that kind of angle probably got some employees who want to straighten things out vs a corporate structure which is blind to the concerns of customers. Sadly seems to be the way far too many companies shamble on these days.

Reminds me of the Lenovo Legion Go where one guy (Ben) in a reasonably high up position went above and beyond to provide support to end users and push for updates and fixes, and the reason why many people actually bought the handheld over the competition, then got reigned in by corporate :(
 
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Rroff said:
If it is that kind of angle probably got some employees who want to straighten things out vs a corporate structure which is blind to the concerns of customers. Sadly seems to be the way far too many companies shamble on these days.
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Yeah, idk about all the statements, 'cos Intel have made a few and they're all over the place, reddit, to people like GN, THG, their forums, on their webpage, but my impression was that some higher up had said to the communication/community people: "go forth and sortify".

They tried, but were lacking:
1. Proper guidance on the approach/tone to take in responding to the issues.
2. The crucial access to the engineers and any testing data, so you get these silly confused nothingburger statements that lead to Steve's corporate conspiracies.

There's likely some level of deliberate corporate obfuscation, I've definitely encountered that too, but my impression was that it was just incredibly poorly managed, where somebody way more senior needed to take command of the situation and provide clear direction.

Edit: just like the Lenovo example in your edit, someone with the authority needed to take control.
 
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Tetras said:
When he was complaining about Intel's statements and their editing, I think it is easy to understand as just employees making statements that they hadn't been briefed properly to make and then realising they screwed up and editing it.
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Sorry that isn't how it works at a PLC, you don't make any public statement without it first be cleared by people higher up as it can/will directly affect the price of the shares. Making any sort or publicly visible statement on an issue a big as this would be decided in a meeting room at the highest level.
 
Journey said:
Sorry that isn't how it works at a PLC, you don't make any public statement without it first be cleared by people higher up as it can/will directly affect the price of the shares. Making any sort or publicly visible statement on an issue a big as this would be decided in a meeting room at the highest level.
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Uhh. Do you realise how much can go wrong between a decision to authorise people to speak and what actually comes out of their mouth? Plus, we're not talking about formal statements made on their website or to national media here, a lot of these responses (like the original disclosure of the manufacturing fault) were just responses to individuals in a reddit thread.

Partly what I'm saying is that it should have ALL been dictated by somebody senior, like every freaking word AND the responses AND the action decided to resolve any issues and it is pretty obvious they were making it up as they went along instead of someone giving clear direction. Before they even spoke (website, reddit, to GN, whatever), they should have access to the information and the authorisation because they were NOT low-level employees, but they apparently were low-level employees.
 
Daytrader said:
Yeh, even a nerfed 13900K/14900K by like 10% will only be like a 1fps loss in a game, its mainly the gpu that counts for gaming.
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Obviously depends on the game, but so far we only have HardwareLuxx.de and tweakers.net and in both cases multi core applications suffered a lot while games did not.

And the tweakers.net results showed is that clocks are down around 9% but what isn't shown is whether the max single core boost suffered. Gaming results imply ST boost isn't affected much.

Of course, the current Intel baseline is still not what's meant to come this month so the final performance is still unknown.
 
Asus is the first to release the new bios

Z790 new bios is available it contains the new microcode to fix the voltage

videocardz.com

ASUS first to release Z790 BIOS with microcode update for Raptor Lake instability issue - VideoCardz.com

ASUS rolls out new BIOS for Z790 motherboards targeting Intel CPU instability concerns The new BIOS says to contain the expected microcode update. Tech reviewers should now be gearing up to test the new microcode version “129”. Intel has promised to release the microcode update in mid-August...
videocardz.com videocardz.com
 
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