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Intel has a Pretty Big Problem..
- Thread starter Purgatory
- Start date
Caporegime
Wow, Intel has fallen hard.
well I suppose the x86 licence is worth something. Good luck with the rest
Soldato
Err, Intel doesn't even use IFS for pretty much all of its newest products (Arrow lake and Lunar lake tiles, NPU's, GPU's etc) yet expects others to use there services?!?
Intel Approaches US Commerce Secretary Gina Raimondo To Help Sort Out Financial Mess
Intel has now approached US Commerce Secretary Gina Raimondo in order to attain the incentives pledged by the Biden adminstration.wccftech.com
"CNBC reports that Intel's CEO Pat Gelsinger has held a meeting with Commerce Secretary Gina Raimondo, expressing the firm's frustration over how the US government isn't collaborating in desperate times."
Please give us more money for doing nothing.
"Gelsinger also showed concerns over how major tech companies are looking to do business with TSMC rather than IFS, indirectly urging that this should be stopped and that companies like Apple and NVIDIA should be directed towards cooperating with Intel rather than the Taiwan giant."
But, but, but, they won't use our foundry. Please "FORCE" them to use us.
Your thoughts ???
Intel’s strategy is, Intel on the latest TSMC node with the competition producing at Intel paying 33%
It’s an evil genius move considering it’s public money and by extension Intels customers subsidising the model.
Qualcomm and Microsoft - Intel becomes 'billy no mates'
Oh well, reap what you sow.
semiaccurate.com
Oh well, reap what you sow.
Microsoft Hobbles Intel Once Again
Microsoft’s screwing over Intel in May was just the beginning, things are going downhill fast.
semiaccurate.com
joke of a bid, INTC have more assets on their books than their current market cap.
A stock price isn't a true value of a company, it's more sentiment based and people don't expect intel to turn anything around for a few years yet.
there's better places for people to put their money right now.
which of those 'assets' are profitable or worth anything?
how can an asset not be worth anything ?
Thats 206 billion 205 million btw ($206,205,000,000)
I think people forget just how massive intel is.
18bil in short term invests, 11bil in cash
They are far from desperate
Intels stock price should be $28.17 based on it's actual reported value, and they won't be lying because their accounts are all audited, the most current ones just haven't been yet.
it's currently 21.84$.
They would be insane to entertain any merger or acquisition based on the current stock price
btw if your wondering what good will is (The value of a company's brand name, solid customer base, good customer relations, good employee relations, and any patents or proprietary technology represent some examples of goodwill.)
It's basically the premium another company should expect to pay if they were to acquire the stock, based on intels customer base etc having value but as above it can also be because of patents etc)
companies are required to review their "good will" on a yearly basis so its not some magic number based on how good intel were 10 years ago before AMD started eating into their market share.
Intels current debt is 50billion, but its not unusual.
big companies are used to get super low interest rates on debt, historically I think they ran around 30 billion in debt, even during the good years
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So presented that wayhow can an asset not be worth anything ?
Thats 206 billion 205 million btw ($206,205,000,000)
I think people forget just how massive intel is.
18bil in short term invests, 11bil in cash
They are far from desperate
Intels stock price should be $28.17 based on it's actual reported value, and they won't be lying because their accounts are all audited, the most current ones just haven't been yet.
it's currently 21.84$.
They would be insane to entertain any merger or acquisition based on the current stock price
btw if your wondering what good will is (The value of a company's brand name, solid customer base, good customer relations, good employee relations, and any patents or proprietary technology represent some examples of goodwill.)
It's basically the premium another company should expect to pay if they were to acquire the stock, based on intels customer base etc having value but as above it can also be because of patents etc)
companies are required to review their "good will" on a yearly basis so its not some magic number based on how good intel were 10 years ago before AMD started eating into their market share.
Intels current debt is 50billion, but its not unusual.
big companies are used to get super low interest rates on debt, historically I think they ran around 30 billion in debt, even during the good years
assests $50 Bn - debt $50Bn
that leaves property, plant, equipment etc. and (wait for it) goodwill lol
IMHO that is painting a very rosy picture given the present circumstances, but hey, what do I know.
Caporegime
Property, Plant, Equipment, $103 bn, if they sell any of that Intel don't have a business.
Good will is meaningless because the good will people place on Intel depends on what they, not Intel think that is worth and Intel can place $27 bn on it all day long when in reality only they think that.
They still think they are entitled to make Nvidia, AMD's....... products and the reality is they aren't interested.
Cash and cash equivalents, yes those are real assets, that's what they have, $11 bn. The rest of it, Intangible assets, material's, work in progress, stock held... all that is changeable and difficult to value.
It would be very generous to say Intel have access to about 30 to $50 bn, as @TrixP10 points out they do have $50 bn in debts, this is not a good ratio, its the sort of ratio that can put you out of business.
AMD has about $4.8 bn in cash on hand, about $17.5 bn in cash on hand and cash equivalents.
They have $3.1 bn in debt
$63 bn in tangible assets.
A total of $85 bn in cash and assets. With debts of $3.1 bn (this is the definition of normal) Its why AMD have a valuation of $200 bn despite being in monetary terns only about 2/3 the size of Intel, AMD has a lot more money floating around in it and its making a healthy profit.
Good will is meaningless because the good will people place on Intel depends on what they, not Intel think that is worth and Intel can place $27 bn on it all day long when in reality only they think that.
They still think they are entitled to make Nvidia, AMD's....... products and the reality is they aren't interested.
Cash and cash equivalents, yes those are real assets, that's what they have, $11 bn. The rest of it, Intangible assets, material's, work in progress, stock held... all that is changeable and difficult to value.
It would be very generous to say Intel have access to about 30 to $50 bn, as @TrixP10 points out they do have $50 bn in debts, this is not a good ratio, its the sort of ratio that can put you out of business.
AMD has about $4.8 bn in cash on hand, about $17.5 bn in cash on hand and cash equivalents.
They have $3.1 bn in debt
$63 bn in tangible assets.
A total of $85 bn in cash and assets. With debts of $3.1 bn (this is the definition of normal) Its why AMD have a valuation of $200 bn despite being in monetary terns only about 2/3 the size of Intel, AMD has a lot more money floating around in it and its making a healthy profit.
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are you serious now?
take
a factory that already has a solid customer base and turnover.
compare it to
an identical factory with no staff, no customers etc
which do you think is worth more money? you think intels customer base, contracts and patents etc don't have value? large parts of intel will be profitable whether you believe it or not.
Intel doesnt need access to 50 billion and you might not be able to sell a factory, but you can take out a loan against it if you really want to.
you guys really don't understand stand stocks to think Intel is so far gone that they need to entertain cheeky acquisition bids
what was intels loss last year? 1.6bn
with 11bn in cash and 18bn in short term investments, that's carrying on as they are for over a decade without cutting back on R&D
How much cash AMDhave , how much debt they have is irrelevant so I don't get why your bringing it up...
it's not a competition between intel and AMD in here where you have to keep trying to point score.
we are talking about INTEL in an intel thread...
do people like it in AMD threads when people are trying to talk about AMD but people kjeep bringing up intel or nvidia and saying oh but they are better? its just point scoring nonsense m8
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Caporegime
They could but they are not going to get anything like $100 bn to loan against those factories because by nature of those factories the value of them falls month by month as they get increasingly uncompetitive, its not like a house where due to artificial supply and demand the value only goes up.
Anyone lending money against those factories is going to take that in to account, its going to be much less than the factory is worth and its not going to be an interest only loan, its also going to have a very short repayment plan.
Intel will never load substantial amounts against those factories, if they do they are guaranteed to lose them, what they will do is try every dirty trick in the book to get Nvidia and AMD to write fat cheques for the privilege to make their products in those factories, they will fail and then they will look at selling them, and for nothing like $100 bn, the longer they delay that the less they will be worth.
Intel don't make Intel products in those factories, they are literally empty.
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Caporegime
It would cost as much as they are realistically worth to bring them in line with TSMC, and then they need the customers, Nvidia, AMD, Apple.... for the income to keep them competitive, Nvidia, AMD, Apple.... aren't going to do that because Intel own them.....
Its over, Intel's fabs are already dead, Intel know that they are just trying to hold on to them for as long as they can.
Its over, Intel's fabs are already dead, Intel know that they are just trying to hold on to them for as long as they can.
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you realise how hard it is to build a fab right? you think a setup fab has no value? they only cost 10-20bn each to build, then its not as a simple as just dropping all the machines in there and turning them on and off they go.
everything needs calibrating, fabs are a massive investment in time and money, I'm sure TSMC would love some of the newer intel fabs if they could have the chance
anyway they don't need to so it's irrelevant and a pointless discussion
just lol.... intel have a 100bn in fabs etc that are just show fabs with ghost production lines for show now
Intel has 15 wafer fabs in production worldwide at 10 locations. Approximately half of our workforce handles production or production services.
Our fab production sites in the United States include:
- Chandler, Arizona
- Rio Rancho, New Mexico
- Hillsboro, Oregon
- Leixlip, Ireland
- Jerusalem, Israel
- Kiryat Gat, Israel
- Shanghai, China
- Chengdu, China
- San Jose, Costa Rica
- Kulim, Malaysia
- Penang, Malaysia
- Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam
all sitting empty for sure, take humbugs word for it.
why are they even building more if they don't use the ones they already have.
some people probably think AMD have 80% marketshare, they aren't even 50%
but if you believe the internet intel is already in its death throws
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Caporegime
They have value yes, they have a lot more value outside of Intel's control.
Intel are a direct competitor to all the people Intel need to use their services, Intel must choose, are they a chip designer or are they a chip manufacture, they can't be both.
Caporegime
Intel used to have 95% market share, on top of than they used to sell their chips for anything up to $50,000 a pop, now they have 65% marketshare and the most expensive chips they sell are about $15,000.
Intel used to be able to afford to keep their fabs running, now they can't even turn a profit while most of their fabs sit idle.
AMD lost their fabs because they couldn't afford to keep them, they then had their chips made by TSMC, they then drastically lowered the price of chips, increased the R&D cost of Intel remaining competitive while AMD took huge chunks of Intel market share, a transference of wealth from Intel to AMD and by extension TSMC.
Its quite ironic that AMD lost so much to Intel in the end it helped Intel's two main competitors to consolidate a transference of Intel's wealth and knock the US off the number 1 spot for this type of technology, now Intel wants to work with AMD whereas up until a couple of years ago they have been trying to squash them since 1978.
Intel used to be able to afford to keep their fabs running, now they can't even turn a profit while most of their fabs sit idle.
AMD lost their fabs because they couldn't afford to keep them, they then had their chips made by TSMC, they then drastically lowered the price of chips, increased the R&D cost of Intel remaining competitive while AMD took huge chunks of Intel market share, a transference of wealth from Intel to AMD and by extension TSMC.
Its quite ironic that AMD lost so much to Intel in the end it helped Intel's two main competitors to consolidate a transference of Intel's wealth and knock the US off the number 1 spot for this type of technology, now Intel wants to work with AMD whereas up until a couple of years ago they have been trying to squash them since 1978.
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Caporegime
All AMD wanted in 1978 was to work with Intel.
The vast majority of Intels value comes from its ability to manufacture at volume for cost. That has always allowed Intel to shape the market while making more money than anyone else. The issue currently is Intel are no longer able to shape the market and have the same reliance on TSMC production as AMD.
Intel is using it’s current opportunity to draw attention to just how important company is to the worlds economy and remind everyone of the rules. Intel are the semiconductor market and have zero intention of selling the fab business.
Intel is using it’s current opportunity to draw attention to just how important company is to the worlds economy and remind everyone of the rules. Intel are the semiconductor market and have zero intention of selling the fab business.