I agree, IMHO trump is a spoiled petulant kid whose greed knows no bounds. His attacks on race, democracy and justice are criminal.
Intel - bribes yes, and they still contest their dodgy dealings. USA justice? money talks.
MAGA - LMAO
-
Competitor rules
Please remember that any mention of competitors, hinting at competitors or offering to provide details of competitors will result in an account suspension. The full rules can be found under the 'Terms and Rules' link in the bottom right corner of your screen. Just don't mention competitors in any way, shape or form and you'll be OK.
Intel has a Pretty Big Problem..
- Thread starter Purgatory
- Start date
Intel - bribes yes, and they still contest their dodgy dealings. USA justice? money talks.
MAGA - LMAO
Intel cutting fat (layoffs) is not an Intel "in a death Spiral"
Also, he thinks "the only good thing about Intel is that they are providing competition in the GPU space" firstly no.... really just no, not even in the slightest way, Intel are bleeding money from its GPU segment to try and fail to undercut Nvidia and AMD and still not gaining any tangible traction.
You think Nvidia are too dominant, you couldn't be more right about that, you think AMD are not even trying to challenge Nvidia, they are, just not in the way you think they should, you do think Intel are challenging Nvidia and AMD 'whom you now put in the same Nvidia box' in the way that they should while at the same time watching Intel in your words "Collapse" and questioning "why are you collapsing Intel, what are you doing???"
Tech Journalists like yourselves put Nvidia in to the position they are now in, they were the gamers friend, they could do no wrong and everything they did was worthy of high praise, rather than realise your mistake you now look to Intel to fix it and bankrupt themselves in the process. This is why AMD don't do what you want them to do, they watched ATI bankrupt themselves in the same process and now they are watching the same process playout at Intel, the only one who can't see it is you.
How about YOU put more effort in to challenging Nvidia? That is YOUR job.
He is right about one thing, Intel's 14A and their foundry future depends on the success of finding profitable customers for it, Intel themselves don't use Intel foundries, not for their consumer products, even they use TSMC so how do they expect a couple of big players chose Intel over TSMC when even you, Intel, think that's daft?
Last edited:
The point is that Trump is fiercely protectionist, so he wants to keep an American corporation - Intel - at the top by hook or by crook. That’s at odds with the rest of the Republicans and indeed at odds with most neoliberal politicians. He’s hailed as the new Reagan when he couldn’t be further from that.
Caporegime
- Joined
- 8 Jan 2004
- Posts
- 32,891
- Location
- Rutland
US has confirmed its take a 10% stake in Intel.
I understand the motivation, just seems a bit of an odd move from a Conservative US government.
I understand the motivation, just seems a bit of an odd move from a Conservative US government.
Last edited:
They don't really have a choice, it is a significant national security consideration for the US.
It's odd in general but not for this particular administration- since Trump came to power again he has been on the path of nothing is free - his first subject was trying to make Ukraine pay back the money the US gave them by having access to mineral rights. And it's a continuation of it - Biden established the CHIPS funding which provided tens of billions for free to semi conductor firms to promote US manufacturing, now Trump is saying because you got that money you now gotta give us part ownership to pay us back
Intel is just the first, Trump wants ownership stakes in all companies that took CHIPS funding - that means TSMC, Samsung, Micron, Texas Instruments, Global Foundaries etc
Trump turns $11.1B in US government funds into a 10% stake in downtrodden Intel
President Donald Trump on Friday announced the U.S. government has secured a 10% stake in struggling Silicon Valley pioneer Intel in a deal completed just a couple weeks after he depicted the company’s CEO as a conflicted leader unfit for the job.
apnews.com
Last edited:
Soldato
- Joined
- 25 Sep 2009
- Posts
- 10,218
- Location
- Billericay, UK
Unless it was a die hard libertarian in charge I think any US president would do the same given how important semi conductors are to national defense.
I agree, I actually think what trump is doing on this is brilliant. The US is under pressure of losing its dominance in semiconductors, and Trump is saying any company that took free chips money needs to now hand over part ownership to the US government. This means the US government will soon own part of most major semi conductor businesses in the world, and therefore they can dictate policies that benefit them
Last edited:
Makes sense since Intel are already building foundries in the US, along with TSMC. Aligns with the whole tariff BS and having some stake in the SC supply chain.
China is already well ahead in this, although, not so much on the high-end chips.
China is already well ahead in this, although, not so much on the high-end chips.
Last edited:
China are OK at cloning old chips, packaging and assembly, but their fabrication and chip technology ranges from meh to total junk. The aim of the CCP is to cut all western chip manufacturers out of the Chinese market but, this comes at the cost of processing density power consumption which cannot be solved by access to improved fabs alone. The most impressive achievement the Chinese have made is implementing SMT4 on an outdated version of Zen, but AMD, Intel and IBM achieved this years ago. And when I say years, I mean like two decades ago.
Yea, I doubt they'll ever be at the cutting edge without deep insider knowledge or actually designing from scratch on their side, but they probably aren't too concerned about that market - it's more about having access to chips for weapons, vehicle manufacturing, etc.
Do you have any data to support that?
Yes: AMD currently own the console space.
Long ago we said much the same about Japan with respect to cars; now look at the car industry.
Soldato
- Joined
- 25 Sep 2009
- Posts
- 10,218
- Location
- Billericay, UK
Probably not a ton of margin on Intel's graphics cards but they are profitable if you do some back of the envelope maths.
5nm 300nm wafer probably costs around 20k, each die is 272mm so at best you'll get 220 good dies but assuming some defects you may end up with about 172 serviceable B580 chips. $20,000/172 is around $100 each, add packing, memory, cooler, PCB and distribution costs there's not a ton of margin in it for Intel. They can still rescue some of the broken dies for B570's and $20k is on the high side.
Intel's biggest problem in GPU's is actually manufacturing, they sell everything they produce and AIB's are crying out for more stock but given Intel is such a small player on the GPU front lead times for extra wafers and capacity at AIB factories is something like 6 months (taken from a recent Gamers Nexus video on the matter).
5nm 300nm wafer probably costs around 20k, each die is 272mm so at best you'll get 220 good dies but assuming some defects you may end up with about 172 serviceable B580 chips. $20,000/172 is around $100 each, add packing, memory, cooler, PCB and distribution costs there's not a ton of margin in it for Intel. They can still rescue some of the broken dies for B570's and $20k is on the high side.
Intel's biggest problem in GPU's is actually manufacturing, they sell everything they produce and AIB's are crying out for more stock but given Intel is such a small player on the GPU front lead times for extra wafers and capacity at AIB factories is something like 6 months (taken from a recent Gamers Nexus video on the matter).
I'd have said Motorbikes more so but yes Fully agree
You're forgetting AIB profits and retailer profits.
The chip is $100, how much do you think the cooler is? the shroud, the fans? the PCB with all of its components, aside from the memory IC's quite a few of the other components on the PCB are also multiple $ a piece, add all of that up and on top of that leave enough room for AIB's and retailers to get a worthwhile profit margin, what do you think that is? 0.003%?
We aren't done yet.... these things are not free to develop, you have to pay designers, engineers to R&D the GPU, licencing, tooling, machinery costs..... you have to recoup all of those costs in the margins of the product because if you don't eventually you will run out of money to do anything, this applies to AIB's and Intel.
Its too easy to look at it on a surface level and say this GPU costs $150 to make so they can sell it for $200, that's enough... for who and what?
Its the same thinking that enables Youtubers to tell millions AMD GPU's should be 40% cheaper than Nvidia and say that with a straight face, its dilution born out of ignorance, its people with no critical thinking skills. Do you know how Nvidia read that? "We should be 40% more expensive than AMD"
--------------------
So with all of that said what Intel are trying to do by selling at a loss is build up a user or even fan base, while this is a sound idea it is IMO a bit short sighted, a bit flawed, you see the problem is the reason that despite selling cheap and all the good will from tech tubers over the last couple of years Intel are still at 0% market share.
Its the gigantic green elephant in the room, if people are not buying Nvidia cards they are doing it because the alternative is cheap, or all they can afford, the moment you gain some market share and start pushing the prices up to levels where you are now turning a profit that market share you built disappears the next day, why? Because now there is no reason to buy your card over Nvidia.
What AMD are doing, having realised this years ago, is trying to make a compelling product, a small discount vs Nvidia for an equally good GPU, that doesn't win you any friends in the tech press which makes it that much harder but falling behind because you don't have the money for R&D... that in the long term is far worse, AMD already made that mistake and are correcting it. AMD's reputation for quality Gaming is growing. Don't believe me? People are buying RX 9070 XT's for near the price of a 5070 Ti, more so than they bough cheap Vaga 64's and Radeon 7's that cost a lot of money to make relative to what they sold them for, AMD lost money on every Radeon 7 they sold, doing that gained them nothing.... the problem Intel now have.
Nvidia have a reputation that is incredibly difficult to dent, which you have to do if you want to compete, you have to make people want your product for its merits more than its price, AMD are doing it, bit by bit.
That is what i meant by.
If you're **** at your job, but you're cheap, surprise surprise you still don't get much business, if any... 0% market share.
Last edited: