Soldato
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Sure. Let's boil every engineering decision ever made down to money. I'm sorry, are companies not allowed to make a profit now?
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Intel launches Core-X series with up to 18-cores for 1999 USD
- Thread starter Kaapstad
- Start date
Sure. Let's boil every engineering decision ever made down to money. I'm sorry, are companies not allowed to make a profit now?
Tell that to people runnng 80c +with **** Intel paste and those that overclock their CPUs but have to delid. Sure you roll over lube up and take whatever Intel spits at you' I'll support the chip maker that gives a ****.
Should have a tough think about Threadripper instead.
I'd like to see people punishing Intel for gimping the PCI lanes and TIM. Threadripper is cheaper per core, has 64 lanes, and is soldered.
Of course they are allowed to make the product as cheaply as they can, and sell it as high as they can get away with.
But in situations like this, the consumer should reward the company who is cheaping out less. Going for AMD Threadripper being the choice in this situation. Same performance per core, less money per core, Soldered instead of TIM, and 64 lanes instead of 28 on the affordable models.
Intel are taking the mick. The 'knowing what they're doing' simply is about profit margin, mark my words the TIM will prove to be very inferior to soldering (just like with Skylake mainstream).
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Soldato
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For a start, most people around here don't even need AMD Threadripper, and probably aren't even considering it, or any of the higher Intel CPUs. And sure, let me trust you, probably someone with little to no experience of what Intel are even doing. And @RavenXXX2, you need to calm down. I didn't even say I was buying a new Intel CPU. But sure, be all melodramatic, and think you're being shafted by engineers who know a lot more about what they are doing than you do. Also, acting like Intel engineers don't care about the product is also laughable.
Soldato
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People will still buy them. I personally didn't think we would sell many of the i7-6950x but I have build over 100 systems with that CPU.
Intel has known very well what they're doing.
Pinching every possible euro/penny/what ever out of buyer with minimalistic upgrades and dragging down advance.
With notable IPC/clock speed increase path ended for example i5s should have been 4c/8t for many years with i7 having 6c/12t.
Low core/thread count CPUs are big reason why game developers haven't spend much time in improving multithreading of game code.
In consoles with their very weak CPU cores multithreading works because game developer can count on game having access to certain number of cores.
With no guarantee of more than high CPU time on couple cores in typical PC game developers just can't make code to utilize extra cores well.
Why does Intel then have to seat heatspreader so haphazrdly with often clear gaps in between die and heatspreader decreasing efficiency of TIM whose job should be just filling unevenness of surfaces?
Associate
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I'm out of here. @madindehead the other big leak thread is much nicer. See you there?
Well in fairness the X99 10C/20T is £1546.99 so they're knocking a third off XD
Associate
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God, I have to say I'm really disappointed in this thread... I'm just back into building pc's and was hoping for some more technical deets on the new HEDT processors. Instead I find a slagging match, mostly aimed at intel... Why "should" i7's have been 6c/12t ages ago?? Honestly WTF are some of you guys on?!
Fact is gaming engines are not even capable of dealing with 4 threads yet so anything more is still pretty much bragging rights...
I'll be going for the 7900x most likely as £1000 for 44 PCIE lanes on an Intel based system seems like a decent deal, especially as I'll be using this processor/mobo for next 5 years.
I feel sorry for all you folks who can't see any good out of these new prodcuts, even if it's not your favourite brand.... just remember none is forcing you to buy one of these!!! If you feel so negative maybe go start a new hobby like snowboarding or something! XD
Peace
Fact is gaming engines are not even capable of dealing with 4 threads yet so anything more is still pretty much bragging rights...
I'll be going for the 7900x most likely as £1000 for 44 PCIE lanes on an Intel based system seems like a decent deal, especially as I'll be using this processor/mobo for next 5 years.
I feel sorry for all you folks who can't see any good out of these new prodcuts, even if it's not your favourite brand.... just remember none is forcing you to buy one of these!!! If you feel so negative maybe go start a new hobby like snowboarding or something! XD
Peace
False its been proven that new games do indeed use more than 4 threads, so no its not bragging rights.
Have you considered a thread ripper with 64 PCIE lanes or do you exclusively buy intel?
What good is in these new products?
Part of the reason behind many games not using more than 4 cores is because intel have been milking us for years. This is now changing of course. More cores is a win for everyone, not just for bragging rights.
Yet another post from a 100% gaming perspective. Intel's CPUs are not solely bought by gamers. Plenty of applications and everyday workloads benefit more and more from extra physical and virtual cores; games have, and will continue to, adapt around that. If Intel had released 6c/12t mainstream parts with, say, Haswell, there'd be even more games now utilising it. Why didn't they? Probably because the only way AMD could compete at the time was in heavily threaded workloads (with Piledriver) and focussing on single threaded performance was to their benefit. Their Xeon lineup shows they are perfectly capable of releasing high core-count parts.
It's also interesting that you're not the first person to bring up "longevity" as a reason to go Intel recently. And yet, when AMD launched a mainstream 8c/16t CPU the cries were "games don't use that many cores!" and "the i7-7700K is still the best gaming CPU right now".
Soldato
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The guys defending Intel just don't have an argument with a number of the points brought up. Intel have held back extra cores to the mainstream to protect their E (now X) HEDT systems and as these HEDT systems aren't sold in any where near the numbers as their mainstream, games rarely make the most of the extra cores. Paste is worse than solder, but cheaper and easier to apply i.e. money. These CPU's will be great performers and yet they still impose PCIE lane limits on £500 plus CPU's.
Now neither AMD nor Intel are our friends but the lack of competition allowed Intel to become very blase about their position and that is why they tend to get people irate.
Lastly you said "Fact is gaming engines are not even capable of dealing with 4 threads yet so anything more is still pretty much bragging rights...". I play mainly BF1 on a 6700k. Overclocked and its 8 threads get absolutely HAMMERED. Saying that, a 7900x will be a very expensive option for a gaming rig unless you do other things on your system. Coffee Lake would be worth waiting for if you only want Intel.
I'd strongly recommend you consider the AMD Threadripper option too.
Obviously wait till they're both out (including motherboards) to tot-up the full price difference and be able to look at reviews.
But from how it looks at the moment, with Intel you'll be spending AT LEAST £500 more, and for no real performance improvement.
The only situations it'll be the better 10c/20t chip is in low-core-use situations, and if it can do 4.5 GHz 24/7. So you'll be trading £500+ and 20 PCI lanes for more performance in low-threaded tasks.
(This is mildly speculative since we don't know the true final IPC of Skylake-X and Threadripper, nor the CPU + Mobo combination price. But is a reasonable assumption based on what we do know)
Associate
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Thanks, this is more the info I'm after as I've been out the game for a while... Although I'm still pretty sure that most on this forum do not require more than 4/6 cores as it's been a long time (as far as I'm aware) since our CPU's were the bottleneck in our power hungry desktops... Obviously there are applications where high core count is beneficial if not necessary.
Apologies btw, I didn't make this clear. I was assuming that most of the "irate" posts were being made by gamers although I guess it's across the board. I myself am a gamer but also hoping to make more and more of rendering package's so I guess the extra cores would help with that although still way way way overkill for my needs.
What I don't understand is why this number of cores is a problem for "most" people here?! Surely if you like to call yourself an enthusiast then money does not really come into it... or does it? Maybe I've missed the point on this entirely but this pressure from AMD (IMO) has forced Intel to add 3/4 extra HEDT CPU''s to their line up last minute. If this had not happened then who knows what we'd be paying for a 10 core..?!
Firstly, I'm not defending Intel as I wouldn't nvidia or anyone else (though i do miss poor old ati!). I do agree with you, the PCIE lane shenanigans is a bit of a dick move by Intel but if you want the best performance you will always have to pay for it... Another way to look at this is that intel is safegaurding itself for the future, and if we are to continue to see nice shinny tec on the market then we can't have everyone going down the AMD route... (I'm not anti AMD btw lol)
Going back to the paste solder thing... if you really want that extra squeeze from your CPU then are you not best to go down the route of delidding and get yourself a nice shinny new ROG apex board etc? The fact that they do not solder the boards gives the enthusiast more tinkering to do in able to gain the best performance...
Btw I'm not arguing with any of you, I am just trying to gain a better understanding of everything before I undertake my crazy build... XD
Haha, OK you got me though I did mean "most".
No way am I waiting for coffee lake!!! Hahaa, I've waited over 10-15 years to be in a financial position to be able to custom build a pc, if I wait for coffee lake then it'll the next gen etc etc..! Unless there is a Beer Lake squeduled.... then I'm interested....! XD
Peace
Associate
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Fair point, though as I have waited so long for this build I am prepared to spend quite a bit of money ( & time) on it... obv dont want to throw this money away though XD
Will see how both perform post release...
I don't get why people seem to think companies philosophies are binary. We either get they are trying to rob you of if not they must be a charity. Some companies do try to offer good value for money and others do price gouge, subscribe to sharp and anti competitive practices whenever possible.
As they say, we get the politicians that as a society we deserve. It seems we also get the tech companies we deserve. If you keep voting for them, buying their products despite their behaviour, they will keep doing it to you. After all their sales tell them you like paying over the odds.
The "hope AMD do well as we can then buy cheaper Intel products" crowd frustrate me as they are the authors of their own misfortune!
Reward good products with your purchases but also punish artificial restrictions and price rises by buying another product. The world is what all of our combined actions make it...
As they say, we get the politicians that as a society we deserve. It seems we also get the tech companies we deserve. If you keep voting for them, buying their products despite their behaviour, they will keep doing it to you. After all their sales tell them you like paying over the odds.
The "hope AMD do well as we can then buy cheaper Intel products" crowd frustrate me as they are the authors of their own misfortune!
Reward good products with your purchases but also punish artificial restrictions and price rises by buying another product. The world is what all of our combined actions make it...