Intel Nova Lake (16th gen) on next gen platform/socket (LGA-XXXX)

[Grim5]

After the recent post NDA reviews/benchmarks probably best to stay unless you need the performance now. Seems like next-next gen + DDR6 is the logical step as Arrow Lake seems to gain significantly from memory latency.

Ddr6 latency will be higher than ddr5

That's the problem with computer memory, as you increase the speed, latency increases with it. So you are better off building an architecture that is not sensitive to system memory performance, like X3D

 

[JollyJamma]

but I don't do AMD, maybe I should.

you can go Intel if you want, it’s your money.

…It’s a waste of your money but it’s still yours.

 

[JollyJamma]

Ddr6 latency will be higher than ddr5

That's the problem with computer memory, as you increase the speed, latency increases with it. So you are better off building an architecture that is not sensitive to system memory performance, like X3D

Do you mean latency or timings or what exactly because it’s not that simple.

Latency in nano seconds is a combination of CAS latency and bandwidth so you could have a relatively high CAS latency value but a very high speed which would result in the same or maybe better latency in nano seconds yielding better performance.

You can work out the latency using a calculator like this one

RAM Latency Calculator

With this RAM latency calculator, you can determine the latency for memory accesses of SRAM to DDR5 generations from the data rate and CAS latency.

www.omnicalculator.com

Taken from the above site:

A 2133CL18-RAM-Kit would have a RAM latency of 17 ns — 18 × 2000 / 2133 = 17 — which is ok, while a 4400CL18-RAM-Kit would have a much lower RAM-Latency of 8 ns — 18 × 2000 / 4400 = 8 — which is pretty good. The lower the RAM latency, the better.

Agree tho that DDR6 wouldn’t be a magic bullet for Intel at this point tho.

Edit: Also agree that X3D architecture isn’t as CAS timing as regular CPUs are tho.

 

[Sem]

I have a 12900K, my options as I see them are, stick with 12th gen, and wait and see what NL, is like, upgrade to 14900K, or put caution to the wind, and spec in to 285K. None of those options are that appealing, 14th gen is a dead end but I could keep my Z690 Hero and memory, staying 12th gen, means I don't get shiny new stuff, and the 285 is pretty lame, especially when it's going to cost me ~£1500. I mean there's AMD, but I don't do AMD, maybe I should.

normally upgrade every 2-3 years as i like being on the bleeding edge but im sticking with my 14700k (upgraded from a 12700K at launch) as tbh Arrow Lake will be a downgrade and I undervolt my cpu to make it more efficient anyway

Also the Maximus Z690 Formula is probably the best motherboard I’ve ever had and I’ve been PC DIYing since 2000 and been through a lot.. its almost perfect and its beautiful too and still has 10Gbe the Z790 formula didn’t and no ASUS AMD board has it built it in either and maybe I’m getting older but i just can’t be bothered with all the upgrades for minimal gains anymore

will keep this till AM6 or see what Nova Lake is like

 

[adamsleath]

blabla gamerz luv x3d etc. pre-empting the usual amd trololo comments
---

JayZ (on cu dimm boosts to ARL):

And specific to NVL...which is the fyoootcha. talky talk about an intel equivalent implement of X3D (MLID yadayada) all vaporware at this point, but this is a novalake thread so... dot dot dot.

o yeh and 'intel is doomed'. better chuck that in before all the comments.

cheers.

 

[Rroff]

Also the Maximus Z690 Formula is probably the best motherboard I’ve ever had and I’ve been PC DIYing since 2000 and been through a lot.. its almost perfect and its beautiful too and still has 10Gbe the Z790 formula didn’t and no ASUS AMD board has it built it in either and maybe I’m getting older but i just can’t be bothered with all the upgrades for minimal gains anymore

600 and 700 series motherboards I find very unexciting despite having a Aorus Master Z790 which seems reasonably competently designed and specced, Intel has kind of cut the consumer platform to the bone and even the best boards are uninspiring, everything is meagre spec or just short of the highest possible versions of the standard, etc. though this board does have 10Gb LAN which is a nice addition.

Coming from the X79 platform where things were generously specced and forward thinking implementation of technologies it is quite meh albeit not an entirely fair comparison being different types of platform.

 

[pvp-forlife]

What are the odds that 1851 will carry Nova Lake and another 1-2 generations after that in terms of longevity?
I could make my peace with a z890 platform and a 265k for now until the next gen comes out, but if this is a 1 cpu 1 platform gig then AMD is the only route.

 

[g67575]

AMD’s AM5 socket is planned to be their main socket until at least 2027.

Why can’t Intel give the same clarity with their new LGA 1851 socket?

I doubt many will be willing to upgrade to a new platform now, without this kind of commitment. Maybe if Arrow Lake was issue free, but that’s not the case.

This platform can support high speed DDR5 modules, so I don’t think there’s a good reason for Intel to abandon it, but that is the usual pattern.

 

[adamsleath]

a 660 or 690 chipset motherboard would accommodate a 12th 13th and 14th gen ...
but i believe the architecture is essentially the same apart from e-core count and clock tweaks.

==
What is/will be novalake?
my thoughts are vague:
pursue this tile/chiplet amd-lake redesign ala ARL
pursue another redesign based on monolithic architetcure

accept a lower / reduced marketshare of the gamer-mindshare (meh)

the claim was to retake the process lead (18A and beyond)
what they need is a Jim Keller.

they had loads of kudos. theyve been beaten whilst being competent yet also complacent. cest la vie. use any words for it.

But an old boss of mine said to me that unless you get to the stage where you are competing with yourself (rather than others) you havent found it.

amd have pushed . nvidia have pushed. i do feel sorry for intel. theyve had good support and reliable stuff. it seems the opinion that theyve been caught with their pants down, tried to rush out some merch. that isnt really spot on. - most should know all the probs recently.

as a 'sumer, not much i can do about it. if there is no intel, there may be others that fill the void. or perhaps none at all.
stuff will happen or it won't.

again i like the intel thing. its familiar.
when i was younger i wanted refreshes in tech toys like much more rapidly. now im older i tend to hold onto stuff for longer. ie the merch hype is less relevant to me these days. i dont care really what others want or do tbh. im just me.

i was pretty hopeful of this arl ...but basically decided on a 12900ks as it is discounted. (discounts are appealing)
do i always go for best bang for the dollar? no. but i usually try to get in the ballpark of 'best' or at least good quality for a reasonable price. in merch generally.

amd has never been my thing. always leaned more toward the intel thing. why? dunno exactly. for the most part it is reliable and has been supported widely due to their dominance in the market.

 

[g67575]

I think Intel needs to sell their latest desktop platform, they don’t seem to be making much effort.

Maybe they’re not focused on desktops so much, with this gen. AI on laptops seems to be a focus for their marketing teams.

 

[adamsleath]

laptops have much more marketshare than the "PC"

lenovo hp and dell have oodles of marketshare also.

while diy pc is substantial it is smaller.

the big battle in terms of revenues is in DC / server. big money there as peeps would know. which is exactly why nvidia/amd have been targetting it. it is the largest pie. intel have had forays into other architectures which they did not pursue further in the past.

ironic that intel still dominates (marketshare) but they are fading fast as others rise to take what intel have had for decades.
it aint my job to sell anything to anyone.
would i be happy with an arl system? Too early to tell amigo. I like tried and tested. ARL is a first gen tiled product. it is also at a price premium. i dont buy the top end stuff.

 

[cliffy]

I have a 12900K, my options as I see them are, stick with 12th gen, and wait and see what NL, is like, upgrade to 14900K, or put caution to the wind, and spec in to 285K. None of those options are that appealing, 14th gen is a dead end but I could keep my Z690 Hero and memory, staying 12th gen, means I don't get shiny new stuff, and the 285 is pretty lame, especially when it's going to cost me ~£1500. I mean there's AMD, but I don't do AMD, maybe I should.

I wouild stick with what you got or try the other brand, no point sticking to just one brand

 

[jigger]

laptops have much more marketshare than the "PC"

lenovo hp and dell have oodles of marketshare also.

while diy pc is substantial it is smaller.

the big battle in terms of revenues is in DC / server. big money there as peeps would know. which is exactly why nvidia/amd have been targetting it. it is the largest pie. intel have had forays into other architectures which they did not pursue further in the past.

ironic that intel still dominates (marketshare) but they are fading fast as others rise to take what intel have had for decades.
it aint my job to sell anything to anyone.
would i be happy with an arl system? Too early to tell amigo. I like tried and tested. ARL is a first gen tiled product. it is also at a price premium. i dont buy the top end stuff.

Others can’t fill Intels order books because everyone has to compete at TSMC. Even as weak as Intel are weak just now they still own the high performance semiconductor market and it becomes a race to the bottom without them. Only Intel can access the pie.

 

[R3X]

Sounds a good plan from Intel, too many shorter releases doesn't feel like its giving them enough time to get things right or performance up.

 

[adamsleath]

Even as weak as Intel are weak just now

weak schmeak. is relative

if there is only one player in an adversarial system/game. the game ends.

like playing soccer with one team. or monopoly by yourself.
the bully that picks a fight out of boredom. for sport.

trololo

I stopped playing the adversarial sport. but hey if they dont innovate, they wont have customers upgrading as frequently = less merch churn.

 

[Dave2150]

What are the odds that 1851 will carry Nova Lake and another 1-2 generations after that in terms of longevity?
I could make my peace with a z890 platform and a 265k for now until the next gen comes out, but if this is a 1 cpu 1 platform gig then AMD is the only route.

Zero, LGA 1851 is a dead end platform, no new generation or architecture. Best you'll get is a Arrow Lake refresh with +200Mhz clocks.

 

[adamsleath]

upgrading for 5-10% is ludicrous . for me.
whatever I settle on is at least a 5 yr prospect or more.

socket AM4 was an impressive run considering their cpu architecture gains from 1-2-3. which is basically done. (i went from a 2 to a 3 gen ...and i had to change a dead motherboard anyway ) oops zen 4 is 7series.

AM5 is now. only time will tell whether they will continue with drastic gains. it does not appear so to me. 9 series is a bump.
ryzen 6? is an unknown quantity. if you have a ryzen 5 refresh i doubt it will be anything more than a little bump.

 

[Rroff]

Zero, LGA 1851 is a dead end platform, no new generation or architecture. Best you'll get is a Arrow Lake refresh with +200Mhz clocks.

Nothing set in stone yet, though the Intel roadmap and focus for the next CPU line up suggests against there being any substantial updates on LGA1851 with the Arrow Lake successor for the same platform cancelled and the features for the next focus almost certainly requiring a new socket.

 

[pvp-forlife]

Zero, LGA 1851 is a dead end platform, no new generation or architecture. Best you'll get is a Arrow Lake refresh with +200Mhz clocks.

I think Intel needs to step up and make a clear statement about the future of 1851.
At this point it’s just bad business to treat customers like this.

 

[g67575]

I don’t see why they would abandon their new LGA 1851 socket any time soon.

What would be the point? They have a decent DDR5 platform now.

Should be good until DDR6 becomes a thing.

AM5 will be alive until 2027, and still using DDR5.

So, I don’t think there will be much demand for DDR6 until late 2027 or 2028.

Maybe DDR6 will be used on workstation boards/ servers for a while, where the bandwidth might be more in demand.

Memory controller tech needs to catch up first, or we’ll be running at gear 4 or 8 in the future

The rumour mill rarely gets it right on socket longevity.