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- Thread starter Gimpymoo
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For a start the tire as changed drastically, I'm having to use completly different tire pressures and the rake of the car. Tires are in a way directly linked to suspention. Specially with how the tire works on lap one there just isn't the instant arcade grip you had last season and you can actually feel the tire wall working now, so body roll comes into play, you also have drop off as the tire starts to wear, something that we have never had last season.
Last season on the z4 a chimp could drive it fast and all the chimp needed to do was build a qualifying set. Add some fuel drop a click or two all round out the tires one click all round on spring perch. You now have a race setup that you could hotlap for 30 minute.
The z4 also ran a 0 wing almost everywhere. Try that now at Spa and you will loose the backend.
The new 4 way adjustable suspention has totally changed how I build my sets now, before riding curbs would be controlled by tire pressure ride hieght. Now we have 4 way adjustables we control it there.
This is mine and Tamas opinion only, after we shared setups Thursday had a good chat about the new tire and suspention how thoughts on it and how to now approach building sets this season.
If you don't know who Tamas is he's king of the mountain and MX5 and RUF setup God. He was also one of GT3's Fastest guys last season even racing in the RUF.
So he knowns more than most. More than anyone on this board anyway.
Not true at all, we have wiped the old setup shop for a reason and I have deleted every single one of last seasons setups. There's a whole different approach now to building a quick setup that can run the distance. IMO
well its true for me, i used a stefan mujielar setup from silverstone and did a 1:17:5 at spa and 1:24:9 at donnington... which without wanting to sound cocky is pretty fast.
all my old setups feel fine as well, just as competitive as always.
all my old setups feel fine as well, just as competitive as always.
Chunk if you want to prove a point load last seasons SPA setup stick fuel in so you can make 22 laps *That's what was needed to be competitive in the 2.4 hour race*
Post your lap results and lets see what you can do. Your either be in a wall, way off the pace. Or prove you are a born again Aryton Senna.
You talking about hotlapping, there no way your get 2:17's under race conditions. If you do your tires will be dead after 4 laps. I was averaging 2:20's with race fuel and GT3's fastest 3 drivers are running 2:18's-2:19's in the SPA 2.4 hour race. So if your 2 seconds faster than them We have the UK's answer to HUTU on this board.
BTW sorry for all the mistakes on the big post above was on my phone.
Post your lap results and lets see what you can do. Your either be in a wall, way off the pace. Or prove you are a born again Aryton Senna.
You talking about hotlapping, there no way your get 2:17's under race conditions. If you do your tires will be dead after 4 laps. I was averaging 2:20's with race fuel and GT3's fastest 3 drivers are running 2:18's-2:19's in the SPA 2.4 hour race. So if your 2 seconds faster than them We have the UK's answer to HUTU on this board.
BTW sorry for all the mistakes on the big post above was on my phone.
You're talking about a 2.4 hour race, of which there are none in the entire forthcoming season. last seasons setups can do 30 minutes races without tyre wear destroying your handling.
i know what my laps were from testing, high 2:18s for first 2 laps then levelling off to low 2:19s and by the time i got to the first pit stop window i was doing high 1:19s with the odd low 1:20. Thats with a setup from last season with adjusted ride height and possibly slightly lower pressures.
Yes but no one is dumb enough to try and do 2:17s in a race are they.
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Here is the lap report for the biggest SOF race at SPA for the road warrior event.
http://members.iracing.com/membersite/member/EventResult.do?&subsessionid=11440223&custid=89076
No one is anywhere near there Q time which are 2:16 - 2:17's Where as last season in a race Julian would be hitting his Q time lap after lap. There's a good 1 second drop off even for the fastest guys after 20 laps and once you hit around lap 21 lap 22 the tire falls off the cliff and you must pit.
Your the only person I have spoken to who thinks last seasons setups work. We are all saying to each other last seasons setups are useless by time you have worked on them you may aswell start with baseline and go from there.
You are correct over 30 minutes we are just on the limit before they fall off the cliff. But for me and everyone I've spoken to using last seasons setups Lap one is like driving on Ice and after 8 laps the tires are just toast, even Julian was saying that and as fast as you are you are not as fast as Julian. None off us could get our qualifying setups to work.
If you have found they have then get on the RUF track board and post your findings. I'd be extremely interested in seeing how you approach the setup and how its working.
http://members.iracing.com/membersite/member/EventResult.do?&subsessionid=11440223&custid=89076
No one is anywhere near there Q time which are 2:16 - 2:17's Where as last season in a race Julian would be hitting his Q time lap after lap. There's a good 1 second drop off even for the fastest guys after 20 laps and once you hit around lap 21 lap 22 the tire falls off the cliff and you must pit.
Your the only person I have spoken to who thinks last seasons setups work. We are all saying to each other last seasons setups are useless by time you have worked on them you may aswell start with baseline and go from there.
You are correct over 30 minutes we are just on the limit before they fall off the cliff. But for me and everyone I've spoken to using last seasons setups Lap one is like driving on Ice and after 8 laps the tires are just toast, even Julian was saying that and as fast as you are you are not as fast as Julian. None off us could get our qualifying setups to work.
If you have found they have then get on the RUF track board and post your findings. I'd be extremely interested in seeing how you approach the setup and how its working.
i saw the race, i know there is drop off... i have simulated entire stint in testing as i said in last post. I know the difference between tyres in this build and last build.
i am not saying every setup works but i have tried 3, stefans one and 2 of my own and they have been fine for me and also my friend who admittedly is driving about 3 second off pace.
the setup i use is already on the forum, stefan mujiselar silverstone race setup with adjusted ride height and low tyre pressure, perfectly fine for 30 minute races with no huge cliff in terms of drop off. first lap is slippy but i put TC to 3 for first lap and everything fine.
Chunk your just missing the point. Totally. You even say you was running 2:18's that level off to 2:19's that's 2 seconds slower than the 2:17's that you just stated and proves that the car is working different to last season where you could run lap after lap at Qualifying pace with no drop off whats so ever.
Weather a race is 24 minutes 2.4 hours or 2.4 days it doesn't matter, everyone was fueling for 22 lap stints Your get 5 laps of pure grip, from there on out there will be drop off around .2 seconds a lap the data and every ones lap charts clearly show this. By lap 12 your be over a second a lap off your first 3-5 laps.
We ran 18 laps I think at SPA for a 30 minute race. So 4 laps before the cliff. But enough laps to show drop off of pace.
Julian found lap 2 was his fastest with drop off every single lap after there and within 10 laps was a whole 1 second down and the guys an alien so for the rest of us that will be more like 2 seconds.
Ill take Julians word over anyone's hes a GT3 champion and his findings are backed up by data. If your findings are different cool get on the board and let us all know so we can help build better setups for everyone.
I look forward to trying your setups this season and watching you walk the GT3 series.
Your also missing a trick by not taking advantage of the new 4 way adjustables. The newly added adjustable setting is for curbs, a problem the RUF had last season was being able to dive over the curbs like the Z4, by rebuilding the setups this season we can eliminate that issue.
Weather a race is 24 minutes 2.4 hours or 2.4 days it doesn't matter, everyone was fueling for 22 lap stints Your get 5 laps of pure grip, from there on out there will be drop off around .2 seconds a lap the data and every ones lap charts clearly show this. By lap 12 your be over a second a lap off your first 3-5 laps.
We ran 18 laps I think at SPA for a 30 minute race. So 4 laps before the cliff. But enough laps to show drop off of pace.
Julian found lap 2 was his fastest with drop off every single lap after there and within 10 laps was a whole 1 second down and the guys an alien so for the rest of us that will be more like 2 seconds.
Ill take Julians word over anyone's hes a GT3 champion and his findings are backed up by data. If your findings are different cool get on the board and let us all know so we can help build better setups for everyone.
I look forward to trying your setups this season and watching you walk the GT3 series.
Your also missing a trick by not taking advantage of the new 4 way adjustables. The newly added adjustable setting is for curbs, a problem the RUF had last season was being able to dive over the curbs like the Z4, by rebuilding the setups this season we can eliminate that issue.
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i try szabo spa qualify setup and i think it is quick but awful experience to drive (as do some others in thread) so i think we have very different requirement from setup.
no you miss the point, i post my quail times from spa, donnington. i never once said i do them in race.
you can take julians word, that is fine... he is a freak in terms of pace but not the be all and end all of it though, there are many driver like enzo bonito, norbi kiss who hardly practice gt3 and are as quick as him.
no you miss the point, i post my quail times from spa, donnington. i never once said i do them in race.
you can take julians word, that is fine... he is a freak in terms of pace but not the be all and end all of it though, there are many driver like enzo bonito, norbi kiss who hardly practice gt3 and are as quick as him.
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Another thing only 8 drivers actualy hit a 2:17 in qualifying trim.
1
Julian Rodriguez Moreno 1 Iberia 2:17.062
CLASS A 3.38
2
Ville Ojakoski 1 Finland 2:17.341
CLASS A 3.16
3
Ricardo Castro ledo 1 France 2:17.484
CLASS A 2.72
4
Jörn Jens 1 DE-AT-CH 2:17.487
CLASS A 2.76
5
Aday Coba Lopez 1 Iberia 2:17.503
CLASS A 3.26
6
Luis Rodriguez4 1 Hispanoamérica 2:17.696
CLASS A 2.45
7
Anthony Roselli 1 New Jersey 2:17.835
CLASS A 4.69
8
Christian Frank 1 DE-AT-CH 2:17.873
CLASS A 2.85
Which one of those drivers is you ?
1
Julian Rodriguez Moreno 1 Iberia 2:17.062
CLASS A 3.38
2
Ville Ojakoski 1 Finland 2:17.341
CLASS A 3.16
3
Ricardo Castro ledo 1 France 2:17.484
CLASS A 2.72
4
Jörn Jens 1 DE-AT-CH 2:17.487
CLASS A 2.76
5
Aday Coba Lopez 1 Iberia 2:17.503
CLASS A 3.26
6
Luis Rodriguez4 1 Hispanoamérica 2:17.696
CLASS A 2.45
7
Anthony Roselli 1 New Jersey 2:17.835
CLASS A 4.69
8
Christian Frank 1 DE-AT-CH 2:17.873
CLASS A 2.85
Which one of those drivers is you ?
Enzo is also an alien so if you listen to one mate you may aswell listen to them all and as I said I'm going off Tamas's findings a man who builds better setups than anyone else in the RUF. Last season for every race I always started with tamas's setups and then tweaked it for myself. I use different caster, brake bias and ARB's to him with everything else the same.
Jasper deleted the setup shop for a reason and consulted the guys who built the setups for last season, all of us agreed a new base is needed and last seasons are not a good place to start.
Which was my original point to Lama before you wadded in. Like I say load last seasons set go run 22 laps and lets see your lap chart. Ill shut up when your running lap after lap at 2:17's. Like you clamied. Ill eat my hat if you can even hold 2:18's. Unless you have found a trick in your old setups none of us have found yet, if you have like I say get your setups up and help the community instead of trying to be a clever so and so.
I dont care about qualifying trim its pointless now. 22 laps mate post it and you must be using last seasons setups or your whole argument is void and you have just wasted half an hour of my life.
And I'm no slow coach myself I wrong on my times I was hitting 2:19's with race fuel on board according to my charts. With only an hours practice. I'm sure with low fuel I'd be hitting 18's no problem which puts me in the very fast bracket, just below the aliens mentioned above.
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you are not reading my posts well spill, i never said i could do 2:17s or 2:18s lap after lap
not once did i even suggest i could, i gave you my lap times over full stint.
not once did i even suggest i could, i gave you my lap times over full stint.
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For me everything, Starting with different tire pressures so that effects the height of the car, once you do that I'm having to change spring perch to lower the center of mavity. Then due to having no fast rebound on the car prior I'd setup the cars ability to take curbs through springs and ride height and balance it with ARB and wing. I'm having to run my bias further forward and adjust it through the race as the fuel comes off as rake seems to be coming into play now.
You no longer need to set the car up that way, you can adjust how the car reacts to curbs using the rebound now. Last season you'd find you'd get it all setup for the fast curbs then the second you got to a slow bend the mechanical grip just wasn't there AKA week 12 Suzuka, example the last chicane and hairpin. My set was like the track was built on an ice wrink in those corners, and the last bend at SPA. This was due to how the set was built for all the faster high downforce corners and curb hopping.
I also ran my ARB's everywhere at 2/3 or 2/4 now you can run a much firmer ARB on the rear and a different ARB on the front as you can adjust turn in through other things and not then screw the setup over curbs or in the slow stuff.
The car also as much more under-steer on the new tires and you cant over drive are you not feeling this ?
Now we can find a balance on the setup and tweak curbs using fast rebound.
I'm also using completely different wing to I used last season. Because all the above as changes I can run 12-13 wing at SPA last season it was around 15-16.
Last seasons setup are worthless as the car and tire handle different now you can no longer take a Q setup and with a few tweaks turn it into a race setup and run within a tenth or two of your Q time for 30 minutes. Not even the Aliens can there loosing 2-3 seconds over a 22 lap stint last season they'd be running lap after lap at 2:17 tire wear as never been a part of i-racing till this build.
I ran a 2 hour race at brands hatch a few seasons back and didn't even change my tires. There was no need I could run the same pace with new or old tires all I needed was to pit for fuel.
If your happy with last seasons setup don't let me stop you using them. But you have just agreed Tamas Q setup is garbage over race distance and I have told you why. Last season I'd take Tamas Q setup tweak it for myself about 3 seconds work. Raise the caster move the ARB or 2/4 if it was snakey 2/3 few instances of 1/4 think only one track Zandvoort or was it the Glenn. Then fill her with fuel and just move the spring perch and pressures one click to make it valid. You cant do that now. Its a lot more realistic.
A qualifying setup will burn the tires out at SPA within 8 laps. The race setup needs to be dialed down, just like they do in real life. Your no longer just making a setup and rolling with that for the week. You have to find a balance between raw pace and stability of the tire.
If your not finding that then NTM5 is still broken and your the only guy who is. As Ryan the chap who builds all the Z4 setups and runs the GT3 schedule is struggling this season building a setup, where as last season the Z4 was super easy to set he'd have something as fast as Julian within one practice session.
You no longer need to set the car up that way, you can adjust how the car reacts to curbs using the rebound now. Last season you'd find you'd get it all setup for the fast curbs then the second you got to a slow bend the mechanical grip just wasn't there AKA week 12 Suzuka, example the last chicane and hairpin. My set was like the track was built on an ice wrink in those corners, and the last bend at SPA. This was due to how the set was built for all the faster high downforce corners and curb hopping.
I also ran my ARB's everywhere at 2/3 or 2/4 now you can run a much firmer ARB on the rear and a different ARB on the front as you can adjust turn in through other things and not then screw the setup over curbs or in the slow stuff.
The car also as much more under-steer on the new tires and you cant over drive are you not feeling this ?
Now we can find a balance on the setup and tweak curbs using fast rebound.
I'm also using completely different wing to I used last season. Because all the above as changes I can run 12-13 wing at SPA last season it was around 15-16.
Last seasons setup are worthless as the car and tire handle different now you can no longer take a Q setup and with a few tweaks turn it into a race setup and run within a tenth or two of your Q time for 30 minutes. Not even the Aliens can there loosing 2-3 seconds over a 22 lap stint last season they'd be running lap after lap at 2:17 tire wear as never been a part of i-racing till this build.
I ran a 2 hour race at brands hatch a few seasons back and didn't even change my tires. There was no need I could run the same pace with new or old tires all I needed was to pit for fuel.
If your happy with last seasons setup don't let me stop you using them. But you have just agreed Tamas Q setup is garbage over race distance and I have told you why. Last season I'd take Tamas Q setup tweak it for myself about 3 seconds work. Raise the caster move the ARB or 2/4 if it was snakey 2/3 few instances of 1/4 think only one track Zandvoort or was it the Glenn. Then fill her with fuel and just move the spring perch and pressures one click to make it valid. You cant do that now. Its a lot more realistic.
A qualifying setup will burn the tires out at SPA within 8 laps. The race setup needs to be dialed down, just like they do in real life. Your no longer just making a setup and rolling with that for the week. You have to find a balance between raw pace and stability of the tire.
If your not finding that then NTM5 is still broken and your the only guy who is. As Ryan the chap who builds all the Z4 setups and runs the GT3 schedule is struggling this season building a setup, where as last season the Z4 was super easy to set he'd have something as fast as Julian within one practice session.
Finally managed to put aside a few minutes to have a bit of a go last night, only managed a handful of laps in the each of the GT3 cars around Sebring, and the Radical around Okayama.
With the GT3 cars I got a setup off the forums for the BMW, but just used the baseline for the rest, way off the pace (2:02 for BMW, 03 for RUF and 04 for McLaren), but that's to be expected with no real practice, what I found kinda surprising was the RUF felt like it had the best front end, the McLaren seems impossible to trail brake without understeering like mad and whilst the BMW was ok the RUF even with the baseline felt better. So think if I do get to do any GT3 I'll go for the RUF.
Radical felt crap to start with, again baseline, but reducing rear downforce and more rearward brake bias and we're back in business, love that car still
With the GT3 cars I got a setup off the forums for the BMW, but just used the baseline for the rest, way off the pace (2:02 for BMW, 03 for RUF and 04 for McLaren), but that's to be expected with no real practice, what I found kinda surprising was the RUF felt like it had the best front end, the McLaren seems impossible to trail brake without understeering like mad and whilst the BMW was ok the RUF even with the baseline felt better. So think if I do get to do any GT3 I'll go for the RUF.
Radical felt crap to start with, again baseline, but reducing rear downforce and more rearward brake bias and we're back in business, love that car still