Iran - does it stop with them?

jakeke · 2 Dec 2009 at 14:13

Why are they a good thing? What disagreement/argument could possibly be worth murdering hundreds of thousands (mainly innocent?) people. The world is such a huge mess at the moment when we think that a nuke (murder on a massive, massive scale) is a possible answer to a problem, in fact, it's hypocritical that we have a law against murder when one day our leaders are potentially willing to murder on such a scale with 0 consequences. Maybe I'm an idiot but stuff like this never adds up in my mind. I've never thought of mass murder as a solution though.

Stolly · 2 Dec 2009 at 14:18

jakeke said:
Why are they a good thing? What disagreement/argument could possibly be worth murdering hundreds of thousands (mainly innocent?) people. The world is such a huge mess at the moment when we think that a nuke (murder on a massive, massive scale) is a possible answer to a problem, in fact, it's hypocritical that we have a law against murder when one day our leaders are potentially willing to murder on such a scale with 0 consequences. Maybe I'm an idiot but stuff like this never adds up in my mind. I've never thought of mass murder as a solution though.

Yes, in utopia there is no war.

Its such a shame it doesn't exist.

Anything more to say ?

jakeke · 2 Dec 2009 at 14:20

Stolly said:
Yes, in utopia there is no war.

Its such a shame it doesn't exist.

Anything more to say ?

YEH LETS BOM THE ARABS CUS THEY SUX

Luseac · 2 Dec 2009 at 14:20

jakeke said:
Imagine if it was Iran who had the nukes and it was us being told we're not allowed them, how would you feel? The whole situation is ridiculous, I honestly don't see where the US/UK get their superiority complex from

Luckily I was born in this country and as such live in one of the greatest countries in the world. This 'superiority complex' comes from being one of the longest standing democracies, once having an influence in over a quarter of the landmass of the entire world and putting an end to a nazi uprising that threatened the way of life as we know it. We are world leaders for these facts and others. We don't have an appalling human rights record like Iran nor are we run by a crackpot leader who's only political credential seems to be sabre rattling. We have earned the right to arm ourselves with nuclear weapons and we can be trusted with them. Iran can’t.

Chimerical · 2 Dec 2009 at 14:21

jakeke said:
Why are they a good thing? What disagreement/argument could possibly be worth murdering hundreds of thousands (mainly innocent?) people. The world is such a huge mess at the moment when we think that a nuke (murder on a massive, massive scale) is a possible answer to a problem, in fact, it's hypocritical that we have a law against murder when one day our leaders are potentially willing to murder on such a scale with 0 consequences. Maybe I'm an idiot but stuff like this never adds up in my mind. I've never thought of mass murder as a solution though.

Because they are what all Governments fear the most. With nukes, you no longer need an Army to threaten another nation, you can just start a countdown sequence. That doesn't mean that said nukes are evenly or fairly distributed but ultimately I like the concept. Also, nukes themselves spend their lives sitting in silos. Guns are the real tools of destruction used across the globe.

Stolly · 2 Dec 2009 at 14:22

jakeke said:
YEH LETS BOM THE ARABS CUS THEY SUX

And the Iranians ? Shall we bomb them too ?

Chimerical · 2 Dec 2009 at 14:23

lucasade1 said:
Luckily I was born in this country and as such live in one of the greatest countries in the world. This 'superiority complex' comes from being one of the longest standing democracies, once having an influence in over a quarter of the landmass of the entire world and putting an end to a nazi uprising that threatened the way of life as we know it. We are world leaders for these facts and others. We don't have an appalling human rights record like Iran nor are we run by a crackpot leader who's only political credential seems to be sabre rattling. We have earned the right to arm ourselves with nuclear weapons and we can be trusted with them. Iran can’t.

China however does have an appalling human rights record. That argument doesn't hold up.

jakeke · 2 Dec 2009 at 14:24

Chimerical said:
Because they are what all Governments fear the most. With nukes, you no longer need an Army to threaten another nation, you can just start a countdown sequence. That doesn't mean that said nukes are evenly or fairly distributed but ultimately I like the concept. Also, nukes themselves spend their lives sitting in silos. Guns are the real tools of destruction used across the globe.

You're probably right, but the problem will be when some idiot decides to let one nuke off, then we'll probably see the end of the world, and that could happen any time. Guns are also terrible, but they're not going to end the human race as quickly. Nobody should ever possess the power of a nuke, and what it can do to this world, as no one person, or one country's judgement should hold the weight of what a nuke could do.

jakeke · 2 Dec 2009 at 14:25

Stolly said:
And the Iranians ? Shall we bomb them too ?

Bomb them all m8 they're all no good. Only USA and UK count anyway!!!

Ring Peace · 2 Dec 2009 at 14:26

The US have a plan to "weaponize" space with the aim of being able to strike anywhere in the world at a moments notice without the risk of reprisal because the system will be able to destroy any missiles/ICMBs before they become a threat.

Why are we not more worried about that situation arising, the merkins may not be our friends forever!

Many people have stated that some western countries have offered to produce the nuclear fuel for Iran, do you seriously think this is a valid solution with the same people threatening the country at the same time, would you agree that your enemy will be your only supplier of fuel and have full control over your fuel supply.

The other point being that pressure is being placed on non western countries to make their energy more CO2 efficient, shall we force Iran to keep burning oil for their energy needs yet bleat on about AGW with the other side of our faces.

Stolly · 2 Dec 2009 at 14:28

jakeke said:
Bomb them all m8 they're all no good. Only USA and UK count anyway!!!

Cry harder.

jakeke · 2 Dec 2009 at 14:36

Stolly said:
Cry harder.

Good one! I will try

RDM · 2 Dec 2009 at 14:41

jakeke said:
No, they shouldn't exist and we should get rid of every one of ours, same with America.

In an ideal world, yes, unfortunately it isn't an ideal world.

jakeke said:
However, what really grates me is how we're allowed them and others aren't. Nobody/everybody in my opinion.

No, because the more states that have them (especially the more unstable states) then the greater the chance of someone using one, to which the response will be another and so on and so forth. It really is in the best interests of humanity as a whole to keep nukes out of as many hands as possible.

jakeke said:
Imagine if it was Iran who had the nukes and it was us being told we're not allowed them, how would you feel?

The vast majority of nations around the world are quite happy to carry on without nuclear weapons. Why is it important for Iran to have them?

jakeke said:
The whole situation is ridiculous, I honestly don't see where the US/UK get their superiority complex from

Is there any particular reason why you are missing out the other nuclear states from your tirade? They really don't want nukes to spread either after all.

jakeke said:
The very fact that they exist and we have some tells me that we'd be happy to use them one day in the future, which to me is absolutely disgusting.

And yet you want them to be in even more hands just so there is some sort of parity and fairness? You are actually arguing for a situation where there is more chance of them being used. :confused:

Random Guy · 2 Dec 2009 at 14:46

lucasade1 said:
Luckily I was born in this country and as such live in one of the greatest countries in the world. This 'superiority complex' comes from being one of the longest standing democracies, once having an influence in over a quarter of the landmass of the entire world and putting an end to a nazi uprising that threatened the way of life as we know it. We are world leaders for these facts and others. We don't have an appalling human rights record like Iran nor are we run by a crackpot leader who's only political credential seems to be sabre rattling. We have earned the right to arm ourselves with nuclear weapons and we can be trusted with them. Iran can’t.

You might want to take off the blinkers now and notice that the UK is little more than a US pawn these days.

Also in terms of an 'appalling human rights record' you may want to cast your mind back a few years and recall the murder of hundreds of thousands of innocent Afghans and Iraqis as part of illegal invasions that were supported by the UK. The irony of you mentioning 'sabre rattling', lol.

If you are then still feeling adventurous and still have a superiority complex about having an influence of a quarter of the landmass in the world (btw, that statement speaks volumes about your POV), then you may want to cast your mind back at the misadventures of your Empire in terms of racism, putting down the local populations, generally screwing up Africa, pretty much enabling the Israel/Palestine conflict, and encouraging many little wars and skirmishes over the years to keep the coffers full. See that thing called reality? You are on the other end of that scale.

Participant · 2 Dec 2009 at 14:48

Ring Peace said:
Iranians aren't Arabs you ignorant pleb.

Some of them are you massive douche.

RDM · 2 Dec 2009 at 14:51

Random Guy said:
Also in terms of an 'appalling human rights record' you may want to cast your mind back a few years and recall the murder of hundreds of thousands of innocent Afghans and Iraqis as part of illegal invasions that were supported by the UK. The irony of you mentioning 'sabre rattling', lol.

That would be the hundreds and thousands that were primarily murdered by their own people? Come on, if you are going to talk about reality then at least be realistic yourself.

Stolly · 2 Dec 2009 at 14:53

RDM said:
That would be the hundreds and thousands that were primarily murdered by their own people? Come on, if you are going to talk about reality then at least be realistic yourself.

Shhhh we don't talk about the suicide slaughters in markets and mosques and religous gatherings carried out by their fellow Muslims.

Luseac · 2 Dec 2009 at 14:55

Chimerical said:
China however does have an appalling human rights record. That argument doesn't hold up.

I would suggest their human rights record is better than Iran's. But I certainly have far much more trust for China than I do Iran.

Random Guy said:
You might want to take off the blinkers now and notice that the UK is little more than a US pawn these days.

Of course it is. I don't know why we don't go ahead and just call ourselves the 51st State.

Random Guy said:
Also in terms of an 'appalling human rights record' you may want to cast your mind back a few years and recall the murder of hundreds of thousands of innocent Afghans and Iraqis as part of illegal invasions that were supported by the UK. The irony of you mentioning 'sabre rattling', lol.

Ahhh the good old "waaaa IRAQ!!!

" argument. See my earlier posts regarding that matter.

Random Guy said:
If you are then still feeling adventurous and still have a superiority complex about having an influence of a quarter of the landmass in the world (btw, that statement speaks volumes about your POV), then you may want to cast your mind back at the misadventures of your Empire in terms of racism, putting down the local populations, generally screwing up Africa, pretty much enabling the Israel/Palestine conflict, and encouraging many little wars and skirmishes over the years to keep the coffers full. See that thing called reality? You are on the other end of that scale.

My Empire? I guess that explains a lot, I take it you aren't British? I would certainly hope not, especially someone who obviously has so much distain for the U.K. truly for a British citizen to be coming out with such nonsense would be criminal.

jakeke · 2 Dec 2009 at 15:02

RDM said:
The vast majority of nations around the world are quite happy to carry on without nuclear weapons. Why is it important for Iran to have them?

Why is it important for us to have them? Why can't we carry on happily without them?

Random Guy · 2 Dec 2009 at 15:22

lucasade1 said:
Of course it is. I don't know why we don't go ahead and just call ourselves the 51st State.

Indeed.

lucasade1 said:
Ahhh the good old "waaaa IRAQ!!! " argument. See my earlier posts regarding that matter.

Can't be bothered tbh. Why don't you provide some links?

lucasade1 said:
My Empire? I guess that explains a lot, I take it you aren't British? I would certainly hope not, especially someone who obviously has so much distain for the U.K. truly for a British citizen to be coming out with such nonsense would be criminal.

Well far be it for me to call you a jackass, but I think its fairly obvious that you can disassociate yourself from the ugly actions of your country and yet still be a citizen of it. 'Criminal' would be to condone criminal actions, like illegal wars, occupations, nasty actions carried out by EMPIRES.

Geddit?

RDM said:
That would be the hundreds and thousands that were primarily murdered by their own people? Come on, if you are going to talk about reality then at least be realistic yourself.

Oh please, don't try and pull the reverse argument (as is so commonly done) as justification. Who created the conditions to allow them to murder their own people? Which sons of bitches have been meddling in domestic M/E affairs as part of their foreign policy for over half a century? 'Primarily' from your quote only applies to the side with tanks, guns and bombs tbh. Everyone knows where to place the blame for that, and history will see to it that it remains a fact.