Is 75hz good enough for FPS Gaming?

Rroff · 6 Aug 2017 at 21:29

You are missing that it is the manifestation of that latency (which can be a bigger effect than the on paper single digit ms representing it) that people notice as I posted above the human eye can be sensitive to changes that are literally 1/220th of a second iin duration as in 4.5ms that is verifiably biological fact backed up with studies.

People do feel the latency from lost packets, etc. that is why games have various systems to try and mask it.

After years of playing Quake 3 at 125fps I've become conditioned to a point I notice small changes that many people wouldn't at all - I sure didn't spend like 6 grand on monitors between ~2011 and 2015 just for LOLs trying to find the perfect setup.

hornetstinger · 6 Aug 2017 at 21:35

Why am I wasting my time? There is discharge effect as well as input lag, and if a LCD has high ms GTG then this is noticeable. I've seen it on a few LCDs, from motion blur in fast games, and on LCD TV's, and on plasma and CRT rear projection

https://pcmonitors.info/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Pursuit-photographs.png

CRT can suffer from a similar problem, where the phosphur stay lit after the object.

Rroff · 6 Aug 2017 at 21:36

Most people don't understand that there is as much the discharge to consider with LCDs as well as the rising edge.

This has negligible impact for the most part on your straight up reaction times but can have a considerable impact on processing what you are seeing and making sense of it.

hornetstinger · 6 Aug 2017 at 21:42

Rroff said:
Most people don't understand that there is as much the discharge to consider with LCDs as well as the rising edge.

yup. It's like having "motion blur" options in games. A fast monitor looks like it disabled, but a slow discharge monitor looks like it has that option enabled.
Way different to "input lag" as that is simply the ms speed from input click on your mouse, to it happens on screen. NOT how long it takes for that lit pixel to go from lit to black.

Rroff · 6 Aug 2017 at 21:44

At the end of the day though those numbers don't really mean much :s as can be seen from the U2913WM review ( http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/dell_u2913wm.htm ) where with its 8ms its beating or matching many 5ms, etc. monitors in the Responsiveness and Gaming section - plus scroll down to the bottom of that bit to see why I had such a hard on for the 2233rz when it came out - that really did give me an edge in COD at the time against so many people using 60Hz IPS, etc. panels heh.

jigger · 6 Aug 2017 at 22:11

At the end of the day non of this can be quantified past people's feels, however I've never seen anyone complain about a NIC or USB controller and those will both introduce hundred's of time the latency.

If people can a see a handful of MS then they should be able to notice hundereds, but the fact is most people that say they can feel fractions of a second can't and looking to a monitor as fix is laughable.

hornetstinger · 6 Aug 2017 at 22:15

jigger said:
At the end of the day non of this can be quantified past people's feels, however I've never seen anyone complain about a NIC or USB controller and those will both introduce hundred's of time the latency.

If people can a see a handful of MS then they should be able to notice hundereds, but the fact is most people that say they can feel fractions of a second can't and looking to a monitor as fix is laughable.

Come back when you understand more please.

Maybe go and buy a old PC LCD monitor that is well known for the worst GTG ghosting/ trailing, and then come back saying it's no different to your HP Omen.

jigger · 6 Aug 2017 at 22:32

I still have a FW900 how about you come back after you google it. I've come across so many master race numpty's that make claims and even tested clan members. The fact is everyone that claims feels is wrong.

hornetstinger · 6 Aug 2017 at 22:34

jigger said:
I still have a FW900 how about you come back after you google it. I've come across so many master race numpty's that make claims and even tested clan members. The fact is everyone that claims feels is wrong.

That's a Sony CRT monitor. Your point is what exactly?

Buy a really old LCD monitor or LCD TV that is well known for terrible amount of ghosting and blurring due to double digit ms GTG and see how enjoyable you like playing games.

Rroff · 6 Aug 2017 at 22:36

jigger said:
At the end of the day non of this can be quantified past people's feels

I pointed to information that can be quantified.

jigger · 6 Aug 2017 at 22:40

Old TFT are crap. Thats why I was reluctant to move but most people got on just fine with TFT. The things is, crap can be on many levels. Depending on what you want in a screen my FW900 is in another league, but could I notice every difference between it and a decent TFT? no, because like the rest of humanity I'm biologically incapable.

jigger · 6 Aug 2017 at 22:41

Rroff said:
I pointed to information that can be quantified.

Feels.

hornetstinger · 6 Aug 2017 at 22:42

jigger said:
Old TFT are crap. Thats why I was reluctant to move. The things is crap can be on many levels. Depending on what you want in a screen my FW900 is in another league, but could I notice every difference between it and a decent TFT? no, because like the rest of humanity I'm biologically incapable.

Why are they crap? If I could find a old LCD monitor with 1 ms input lag, but 45 ms GTG, why would it be crap?

This'll be good.

jigger · 6 Aug 2017 at 22:44

If you have to ask. But please find me a 1ms screen, and I'll show it's not 1 ms not that you'll be able to notice.

hornetstinger · 6 Aug 2017 at 22:48

jigger said:
If you have to ask. But please find me a 1ms screen, and I'll show it's not 1 ms not that you be able to notice.

Yes I'm asking. Why are old LCD monitors crap? hohoho.

Why don't you play sonic on the old Sega game gear? Are you saying the LCD on that has exactly the same trailing as a modern 2ms GTG panel?

jigger · 6 Aug 2017 at 22:51

I'm saying people claiming to be able to tell a difference down to single didgit MS are full of crap and people that put a value on chasing uber low latency screens are fools.

hornetstinger · 6 Aug 2017 at 22:54

Did I say anything about latency?

Oh dear. You really don't understand.

Rroff · 6 Aug 2017 at 22:59

hornetstinger said:
Did I say anything about latency?

Oh dear. You really don't understand.

He really doesn't understand and there is no way to make him understand either.

I don't have multiple monitors on my desk so as to get the best of both worlds just for LOLs its not even particularly convenient.

jigger · 6 Aug 2017 at 22:59

But you don't know understand the problems that would come with your feels. They would be staggeringly obvious.

You and your feels really should be up in arms about just how terrible a gaming *experience* the PC is.

Rroff · 6 Aug 2017 at 23:01

jigger said:
But you don't know understand the problems that would come with your feels. They would be staggeringly obvious.

So you think people are overclocking their USB ports from 125Hz to higher values just as a placebo as well right? (which is a bit off at a tangent to the argument over monitors and the importance of ms in that context but still).