Is 75hz good enough for FPS Gaming?

Rroff said:
So you think people are overclocking their USB ports from 125Hz to higher values just as a placebo as well right? (which is a bit off at a tangent to the argument over monitors and the importance of ms in that context but still).
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It's pretty clear what I'm saying. If you can feel 10ms you should be able to feel 200ms. Why do you focus on the 10ms?
 
jigger said:
It's pretty clear what I'm saying. If you can feel 10ms you should be able to feel 200ms. Why do you focus on the 10ms?
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What are you on? - most games have a delay of around 50-60ms between the user pressing a button and that action being reflected on the screen - even on console casual gamers start to complain in games that have like 130ms delay between control input and the monitor displaying what they are doing. A few ms on that can absolutely be noticeable by people - go watch some of battlenonsense's videos - one aspect of that being when those single digit ms go over frame boundaries causing an additional frame (i.e. 16.666ms) of delay, etc.

You really have to look at what is happening behind the scenes with those numbers represented by single digit ms to gauge their actual noticeableness.
 
I bought it because it was hands down the best in terms of QC and the closest I could get to 90Hz. It also come with a 4 year onsite exchange warranty.
 
I don't even beliv
Rroff said:
You really have to look at what is happening behind the scenes with those numbers represented by single digit ms to gauge their actual noticeableness.
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What like the ones I mentioned two pages ago that you now want you roll into your argument somehow? Why aren't you raging about how crap the PC is as a platform and how much of a lasagne of fail a windows gaming PC is? Even average monitors are one of the better parts of the loop.

The reason is you can't tell.
 
Well for you a better system would be wasted. You wouldn't be able to tell the difference. You can build/tune a proper gaming system, but for 99.9% of people it's pointless and it probably wouldn't be l33t enough.
 
What are you even trying to say?

Baring in mind you are talking to someone who was noticing and demonstrating issues (and getting stick for it on these forums until companies like PCPer brought it up) with microstutter, etc. long before it became mainstream.

EDIT: Which is another thing - the whole microstutter thing is now a tested and accepted as noticeable thing where we are talking single digit ms variations in frametimes.
 
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Rroff said:
What are you even trying to say?

Baring in mind you are talking to someone who was noticing and demonstrating issues (and getting stick for it on these forums until companies like PCPer brought it up) with microstutter, etc. long before it became mainstream.

EDIT: Which is another thing - the whole microstutter thing is now a tested and accepted as noticeable thing where we are talking single digit ms variations in frametimes.
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I'm saying you've proved you can't notice latency to any significant level so don't worry about it, but I do have a bit of a problem with your continued focus on 10% of a problem. Even if you can't notice the issue common sense should kick in...

About the micro stutter you claim to have uncovered ahem. Well thats not a situation a player skilled enough to notice small amounts of latency would be in is it and we have to assume you actually noticed. If you did or not making this statement in no way convinces me or qualifies you to being anything other than Joe average.
 
jigger said:
I'm saying you've proved you can't notice latency to any significant level so don't worry about it, but I do have a bit of a problem with your continued focus on 10% of a problem. Even if you can't notice the issue common sense should kick in...

About the micro stutter you claim to have uncovered ahem. Well thats not a situation a player skilled enough to notice small amounts of latency would be in is it and we have to assume you actually noticed. If you did or not making this statement in no way convinces me or qualifies you to being anything other than Joe average.
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Why did you even bother to type that gibberish?

Sure the PC as a platform isn't entirely optimal for end to end latency - but it isn't like there are any other options unlike with monitors where you can choose to use a display with as low as latency as possible exposing those with less than ideal performance. Just because the whole system has issues doesn't make smaller problems insignificant.

If you've actually read many of my posts here you'd know I run a fairly type ship when it comes to gaming - keep my OS optimised, overclocked USB rate, use mice like the Zowie FK series, have kept on the bleeding edge of gaming monitors amongst the earliest adopters of 120Hz TFTs, making sure I'm using FastPath on my internet connection, etc. etc. I don't just do that for fun - some of it is quite a hassle unless its a necessity.
 
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Rroff said:
Why did you even bother to type that gibberish?

Sure the PC as a platform isn't entirely optimal for end to end latency - but it isn't like there are any other options unlike with monitors where you can choose to use a display with as low as latency as possible exposing those with less than ideal performance. Just because the whole system has issues doesn't make smaller problems insignificant.

If you've actually read many of my posts here you'd know I run a fairly type ship when it comes to gaming - keep my OS optimised, overclocked USB rate, use mice like the Zowie FK series, have kept on the bleeding edge of gaming monitors amongst the earliest adopters of 120Hz TFTs, making sure I'm using FastPath on my internet connection, etc. etc. I don't just do that for fun - some of it is quite a hassle unless its a necessity.
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Because I can see the failure in your posts. Why are you not up in arms about the much bigger problems? Because you can't notice them, and neither can many others.

Like I said monitors are pretty much as good as they need to be genrally. refresh rate, responce time pixel rise and fall is all pretty close to what we had 15-20 years ago. The biggest problem right now is quality control and the level rubbish people will tolerate is a big problem and I've chewed many a reps arse over OC including OcUK reps.

Anyway I'll ignore your half arsed insults, but now you accept what I've been saying and it seems to have finally sunk in a little, why are you still trying to come across if you have some relevant point when you have already proved you have no point, or at least non worth debating until a whole host of much bigger problems are dealt with and even then hardly anyone would be able to appreciate.
 
jigger said:
Because I can see the failure in your posts. Why are you not up in arms about the much bigger problems? Because you can't notice them, and neither can many others.

Like I said monitors are pretty much as good as they need to be genrally. refresh rate, responce time pixel rise and fall is all pretty close to what we had 15-20 years ago. The biggest problem right now is quality control and the level rubbish people will tolerate is a big problem and I've chewed many an reps arse over OC including OcUK reps.

Anyway I'll ignore your half arsed insults, but now you accept what I've been saying and it seems to have finally sunk in a little, why are you still trying to come across if you have some relevant point when you have already proved you have no point.
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Because the bigger problem isn't really relevant to this thread and while I've complained about it plenty of times in the past - I'm not sure how you've missed all my posts in the GPU section for instance on it - there isn't exactly an alternative - while with monitors you can very much choose a better alternative over some of the slower ones that are distinctly lacking it might still not be an ideal situation but its the best you are going to get.

I'm not accepting anything you've said - you are spouting utter rubbish I'm not even sure you aren't just trolling any more as some of it is the equivalent of claiming the eye can't see more than 30fps.
 
Isn't really relevant to you, yes I agree you clearly can't notice significant latency and neither can most people.

Is 75Hz good enough for competitive FPS? The answer is 100% yes. If you have to skill and ability. Even a 60Hz TV is enough. At 30Hz you are well past the point of the biggest bottleneck IF you can notice it. If you have enough ability you should be able to make 30Hz work.

I can still monster people on a 59Hz monitor with 50FPS and a crappy mouse. Probably more like 40FPS TBH.
 
jigger said:
Isn't really relevant to you, yes I agree you clearly can't notice significant latency and neither can most people.

Is 75Hz good enough for competitive FPS? The answer is 100% yes. If you have to skill and ability. Even a 60Hz TV is enough. At 30Hz you are well past the point of the biggest bottleneck IF you can notice it. If you have enough ability you should be able to make 30Hz work.

I can still monster people on a 59Hz monitor with 50FPS and a crappy mouse. Probably more like 40FPS TBH.
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You are getting boring and talking rubbish - I've demonstrated many times in the past 10+ years of posting on these forums I'm able to notice latency on a wide range of scales claiming otherwise based on what you've read into my posts in this thread is utterly crazy.

Go watch some of Battlenonsense's videos who address most of what you are talking about with facts and in depth analysis.

Sure its possible to play well and at a high level on less than ideal gear but that doesn't mean you can't get a better experience.

EDIT: For all your talk of the state of Windows as a gaming platform and 100s of ms of delay - here is some actual button to pixel results using a higher end gaming monitor with a typical game:

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As can be seen on an optimal setup this can be as low as 9ms - this can rise to well over 20ms, even over 60ms with a slower 60Hz monitor - while I agree with the general sentiment that Windows isn't ideal as an end to end platform you are clearly talking rubbish about the bigger picture in terms of significant latency at the scale you are implying.
 
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I've played all sorts of games on 75hz since forever. Bought a 144hz monitor last week and am left scratching my head as to why I didn't get one earlier.
 
I don't find 75Hz too bad for single player stuff - if all I did was offline gaming I'd happily play on a 75Hz panel as a compromise for higher image quality with G-Sync and/or FastSync - its no comparison to 120+Hz though online.
 
Is 75hz good enough for fps gaming? Of course it is.

We have many monitors in our house ranging from 1ms to 8ms and from 60hz to 144hz all belonging to gamers of varied skill levels. The best player in our house was destroying the rest of us and players online with a 60hz 23 inch Samsung pls with a 5ms response time.

After upgrading their monitor to a 144hz Samsung va they were still unbeatable. But something else happened. They started to complain about network latency so we had to get a proper dedicated router. Now with the new router everyone has claimed that the connection is much better and no complaints.

It's in my opinion that when a bottleneck is sorted you may discovery another one.
 
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