Is anti-Veganism discriminatory . . .

[bloodiedathame]

Either that or the people here who appreciate that these issues are all symptoms of a much larger underlying problem and not causes in their own right.

None of these issues will be resolved unless the far greater problem is dealt with!

It doesn't mean we as individuals have to wait for companies and governments to make changes for us.

 

[snips86x]

Forget that I don't eat meat and you do for one second. Do you think if we all cut down on eating beef it wouldn't help the planet? at all?

I wouldn't even bother mate! People like that are so set in their ways, you can't even have a reasonable conversation with them about it. I'd be surprised if a large majority of people who slate vegans are either:
1) Ignorant of the effect it's having on the planet
2) Clueless about the ethics and animal crulety involved in its production (not to mention the waste of resources)
3) Aren't willing to be educated in any regard for fear of what they might find out

It's not just about the helping the planet though. The animal crulety that is linked to this industry is off the scale. It's unsustainable.

 

[Orionaut]

It doesn't mean we as individuals have to wait for companies and governments to make changes for us.

The point is, the "Personal Changes" will not really make any difference.

For example, There is nothing particularly environmentally friendly about modern industrial scale arable farming and eschewing meat isn't going to make any significant difference to this.

 

[Trappi$t]

I used to be an AVID meat eater, then I educated myself on the revolting factory farming of animals and the repellent slaughter methods, as well as the environmental impact.

Suffice to say now, I never eat Chicken, Seafood, or anything other than the very rare bit of German Salami, and Grass fed Scottish beef.

There is really not much of a reason diet wise to have meat more than once or twice a week at most.

People who are like "I LUV MA MEET AND DATS IT, GTFO VEGANS ETC" are 1) closed minded, 2) thick, 3) willfully ignorant.

I used to be in one of those categories!!

 

[bloodiedathame]

The point is, the "Personal Changes" will not really make any difference.

For example, There is nothing particularly environmentally friendly about modern industrial scale arable farming and eschewing meat isn't going to make any significant difference to this.

I totally disagree. Personal changes are what makes companies and governments sit up and take notice. It's already happening, but it's happening slowly.

On a side note: Arable farming will be more environmentally friendly if and when people move to a more plant based diet, as there won't be such a reliance on assuring maximum yield from each crop (with the use of pesticides etc). People should get more used to eating seasonal veg, veg that doesn't look 'perfect' and wasting less of it.

 

[ttaskmaster]

NVM

 

[Orionaut]

I totally disagree. Personal changes are what makes companies and governments sit up and take notice. It's already happening, but it's happening slowly.

Oh sure, and all you will be doing is swapping one form of intensive resource hungry agribusiness for another

On a side note: Arable farming will be more environmentally friendly if and when people move to a more plant based diet, as there won't be such a reliance on assuring maximum yield from each crop (with the use of pesticides etc). People should get more used to eating seasonal veg, veg that doesn't look 'perfect' and wasting less of it.

Except that is not how it will work, (And even if it did, any advantage would soon be lost because the underlying issues have not been resolved)

And in any-case. Farmers cant just produce whatever they like.

A Welsh sheep farmer cant just decide to grow soya beans instead.

And an Irish Beef farmer cant just decide to grow corn

 

[Trappi$t]

You forgot the most important one - None of the above.
Like various petty crimes, actions that cause considerable inconveniences, or even outright and blatant dangers to other people, most people just do not give a flying ****. End of.
Why then should they care that eating meat is killing the planet?

Most ecological problems have arisen because we're badly overpopulated. Kill off some humans, remove the need for mass industrial meat farming and then whoever is left can be happy dining on a wheatgrass and watercress latte smoothie and pretending they saved the planet, or whatever.
Until then, you're just another part of the overpopulated problem-species.

I'd like to see the population culled to 3.5Billion, only issue is, what and how can you get rid of 3.5billion people? It is a big ask.

 

[Dirk Diggler]

I used to be an AVID meat eater, then I educated myself on the revolting factory farming of animals and the repellent slaughter methods, as well as the environmental impact.

Suffice to say now, I never eat Chicken, Seafood, or anything other than the very rare bit of German Salami, and Grass fed Scottish beef.

There is really not much of a reason diet wise to have meat more than once or twice a week at most.

People who are like "I LUV MA MEET AND DATS IT, GTFO VEGANS ETC" are 1) closed minded, 2) thick, 3) willfully ignorant.
I used to be in one of those categories!!

Superiority complex much?

Society is full of sanctimonious problem solvers these days. It's like you've found your niche campaign and now it's time to pulverise the population into submission.

Well done for making your life choices, why not leave others in peace to make theirs.

 

[ttaskmaster]

NVM

 

[Rimsy]

Political Correctness and other such BS is already angering people. Give it some time, we'll erupt into violence and things will take care of themselves from there.....

You almost wonder if that scenario is what world leaders have planned the way the last 24 months have gone.
Stealth sterilisation would surely be less messy

 

[loltim]

I wouldn't even bother mate! People like that are so set in their ways, you can't even have a reasonable conversation with them about it. I'd be surprised if a large majority of people who slate vegans are either:
1) Ignorant of the effect it's having on the planet
2) Clueless about the ethics and animal crulety involved in its production (not to mention the waste of resources)
3) Aren't willing to be educated in any regard for fear of what they might find out

It's not just about the helping the planet though. The animal crulety that is linked to this industry is off the scale. It's unsustainable.

Agree 100% but I do think it's improving. Even 3-4 years ago a thread like this would be 99% meat eater. Now it appears to be 98%
You don't even need to cut out meat completely (unless you're an animal lover obviously, I will never, ever understand having a pet rabbit and then eating rabbit in a restaurant), but just a conscious effort to cut down on meat consumption.

Happy Friday everyone https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrFeky7J0zk

 

[bloodiedathame]

Oh sure, and all you will be doing is swapping one form of intensive resource hungry agribusiness for another

Big business will always exist, I appreciate that notion, but the idea of cattle farming being as detrimental to the planet as the majority of crops is just not correct. There could be difficult crops that get close to the least impactful animal farming (chicken?) but I've yet to see any evidence of that. There would be hardly any vegan products in supermarkets if there wasn't a market for it. Governments wouldn't be banning plastic if it didn't matter to their electorate.

Except that is not how it will work, (And even if it did, any advantage would soon be lost because the underlying issues have not been resolved)

And in any-case. Farmers cant just produce whatever they like.

A Welsh sheep farmer cant just decide to grow soya beans instead.

And an Irish Beef farmer cant just decide to grow corn

What do you consider the underlying issues? Yes, there are environments that simply can't be used for crops, I appreciate that too. When you look at how much land is used to grow feed for the animals we consume, and the amount of greenhouse gases that these animals produce, it's just not sensible or sustainable.

 

[ttaskmaster]

NVM

 

[robj20]

Superiority complex much?

Society is full of sanctimonious problem solvers these days. It's like you've found your niche campaign and now it's time to pulverise the population into submission.

Well done for making your life choices, why not leave others in peace to make theirs.

I was thinking the same thing. I like my meat i don't plan on ever giving it up.
Just yesterday the wife went to the butchers. Should keep us going for a few weeks.

Luckily the few friends i have that are vegan dont even label them selves as such. They just don't eat meat and that's that, they didnt just decide to be vegan and start trying to push it on everyone else.
They just slowly without conscious effort stopped eating meat, there are times when i choose the vegi option because its what appeals to me most on a menu. I don't think every meal has to include a meat item.
Today's breakfast and dinner were both technically vegan but they weren't chosen for that reason.

 

[Orionaut]

I was thinking the same thing. I like my meat i don't plan on ever giving it up.
Just yesterday the wife went to the butchers. Should keep us going for a few weeks.

Luckily the few friends i have that are vegan dont even label them selves as such. They just don't eat meat and that's that, they didnt just decide to be vegan and start trying to push it on everyone else.
They just slowly without conscious effort stopped eating meat, there are times when i choose the vegi option because its what appeals to me most on a menu. I don't think every meal has to include a meat item.
Today's breakfast and dinner were both technically vegan but they weren't chosen for that reason.

Looks like a goodly chunk of that has come from a proper Butchers.

Is it mostly British Isles sourced (Inc S Ireland)

 

[robj20]

Looks like a goodly chunk of that has come from a proper Butchers.

Is it mostly British Isles sourced (Inc S Ireland)

While i cant be certain where it comes from specifically, when i have asked its all sourced as locally as possible. Its all fresh never frozen. The packs of chicken are probably the least animal friendly its just a big 5kg pack.
I get very little from the supermarkets, except Aldi but thats always british meat such as the angus steaks and such.

 

[GIBURROWS]

I like meat and as it's my life therefore my choice, I won't enforce my opinion on others though.

 

[quickshot89]

I'd like to see the population culled to 3.5Billion, only issue is, what and how can you get rid of 3.5billion people? It is a big ask.

6 stones and a golden glove

 

[Orionaut]

What do you consider the underlying issues?

The underlying issue is too many people.

JUST too many people. Even if everybody in the world did go vegie/Vegan/Synthetic yeast slurry manufactured in ICI chemical factories.

All it would do is push Judgement day forward a couple of decades.

Unless the population issue is resolved, nothing else will matter.

The enviroment would be struggling even if the population was still only what it was in 1900.

But todays population, and the fact that it is still growing fast.

I am afraid i am not particularly hopeful for the future. Whether or not I (Or anybody else really) eats meat will make no difference to the eventual outcome at all.

it's just not sensible or sustainable.

No, It isnt!

Ghandi had it right in 1928, and he was just talking about India, when India's population was a fraction of what it is today!

God forbid that India should ever take to industrialism after the manner of the West. The economic imperialism of a single tiny island kingdom is today keeping the world in chains. If an entire nation of 300 million took to similar economic exploitation, it would strip the world bare.

And today,

I'd like to see the population culled to 3.5Billion, only issue is, what and how can you get rid of 3.5billion people? It is a big ask.

Even that is wayy to many.

To maintain the standard of living that most of the world strives for, anything over 1Bn is going to be a struggle in the long term!

As it is, we are currently pushing 8Bn and may well hit 11-12 within 40 years or so.

I must confess to being sorry for the Millennials!