Is being a chav genetic or social?

society. back in the day you did something wrong you got a clip round the ear or a good hiding :p you cant discipline people anymore. its like fairy land. everything is against someones rights the worlds covered in cotton wool. so with no fear of reprisal people wonder why more act like ***** . :p
 
~>Dg<~ said:
society. back in the day you did something wrong you got a clip round the ear or a good hiding :p you cant discipline people anymore. its like fairy land. everything is against someones rights the worlds covered in cotton wool. so with no fear of reprisal people wonder why more act like ***** . :p
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Yes!! Was still a little git though
 
In your OP you mentioned jobless.

I take offence to that, not everyone who is jobless is a Ned or chav. I have been out of work and on benefits for a year now and likely to be so for a while, due to health reasons(kidney failure, requiring a transplant)

So that seems a sweeping generalisation.
 
Nature vs nurture. Philosophical question. Why does anything turn out the way it does.

People are largely a product of their environment.
 
I always thought it was nurture. But I changed my mind and believe at least part of it is nature. My brother has two son's; one is his biological son and the other is his wife's son by another father who he legally adopted as a baby. He treated both identically and neither son knew until they were well into adulthood. The other father was not involved at all in bringing up the child.

Without going into too much private detail the two son's are very different, with the biological son showing very similar personality traits to my brother and the other son showing very strong traits similar to his own biological father.

It's a mixture of both nature and nurture, with nature predisposing you to act in certain ways. Nurture can change that to some degree but nature still shines through.
 
stockhausen said:
Stevedores are they then
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KGV posse!?

..........


Nature can override nurture and vice versa...can be interesting and/or infuriating to engage with the 'nonsense'...'their' humor could be mistaken for aggression...and you'd probably be right :p

get tipsy to do the weekly shop would be my advice
 
I listened to a podcast on a nature nurture debate, and contrary to all I believed it sounds more like it's really a lot more nature than you would expect, or hope to be.

Your genetic traits will guide you so strongly and it's pretty hard to recondition you to go against them.

Chavs is probably some ancient tribal dominant pack mentally thing as are most gangs, monkey troops.
 
I'm not sure.
Growing up, I was about as far removed from a chav as you could get, but my sister (2 years younger, identical upbringing) was a complete chav.

This path continued as she got older (poor school results, not bothering attending some of her GCSE exams, teen pregnancy, multiple children with different fathers, no job) and only in the last 8 years or so has she completely turned things around and become a normal functioning human.
 
social i would say ,parents and also the friends you choose ,i was one of the posh kids up in my town in yorkshire ,we would do cycle motocross ,ride our dirt bikes (old honda c90) on the old railway track ,play golf in the fields ,the lads from the council estates would tend to be out with air rifles shooting rats in the old quarry ,or throwing homemade kung fu throwing stars at the school wooden outbuilding ,we would all skateboard in my circle but if you strayed to the wrong area your board could get snatched ,not a good thing i paid 35 quid for kryptonics back in the 70s ,the whole board must have been iphone value (iim starting to drift of the thread and twitter on about the good old days)
 
Orionaut said:
The last couple of generations have been the product of an environment where there has been a strong selective pressure against being smart! :/
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It's was like that in school in the 90's, if you were smart and getting good grades the other kids would really bully and tease you. But i have a decent job and i guess most of them are on the dole. At least they were when i bumped into a lot of them a decade later.
 
I think like most people you adopt a persona depending on your underlying values and emotions.

With chavs, I think their dissatisfaction with their lives, environment, irregular shaped sofas, plays a large role in their behaviour. They're angry. Angry about the fact the cant call anything of worth their own, angry they have to rely on the state for handouts, angry about the fact they had so many kids and it didn't really improve their lives for the better.

Now whilst this anger is masked on the surface, I'm sure it sits there deep down and all this loud brash nature with their desire to show off with tattoos, possessions, loud music it's all masquerading how they feel inside with their inadequacies.

At least that's my interpretation of it.
 
bazzabear said:
This an interesting one. I sometimes think about how often films have a level of moral message. How do you watch and enjoy a film whose central message is the importance of doing good by your fellow man, and then go out and rob someone's house or vandalise a car or something the next day?
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their IQ is like 40 - do you really think they care?

i had to go to the bank the other week. as soon as i stepped out of my car 10 feet away from the branch door I had a junkie come right up to me asking for 50p - i told him where to go and that he shouldn't be coming up to people. he didn't care.

as soon as i got to the door there was a notice on it saying 1 member allowed in at a time and there was a guy already in there.

as he was coming out i stepped to the side to let him past giving him distance. he was another junkie and the one outside was waiting on him. he asked me for money too and i told him to do one when he came up to me.

they don't care - they are literally vegetables. i remember all the neds at school they all took drugs on the weekends. ecstasy, ketamine, weed, you name it they were taking it. you think driinking and taking drugs from a young age helps their mental development when all they do in school is disrupt others and learn nothing?

personally i think there should be a school made up for neds - people who show zero commitment to learn or obey the rules. just throw them all in there with each other and let them ruin each others lives instead of those who are trying to better themselves.

i saw one of them a nearly a decade or so back, must have been nearly a decade since i last saw him at school. the state of his clothes and he had a fat ugly ned bird with him and he looked terrible. he was one of the most disruptive in my year, i remember after P.E. one day he took a tie and choked out a kid for nothing. just for something to do. when the kid had his back to him getting changed.

i was with someone and i actually burst out laughing when i saw him because he looked like hell and it looked like he wasn't doing too well in life, massive bags under his eyes and his eyes looked smaller too as if he was having trouble opening them. they asked me what was up and i told them i went to school with that guy and he was a complete **** head and seeing him like that made me happy. and they agreed by looking at him they could just tell he probably wasn't the nicest person to be around.

you must know some police officers - they have thousands of stories to tell about the scum within society. the best one i've been told so far is a guy didn't want to get caught with drugs. he had it up his bum. when he pooed he just grabbed it and swallowed it again. do you really think someone like that cares if he is robbing people?
 
Probably mostly social, some bad luck/randomness and perhaps some genetic component.

I mean a couple of generations ago there were perhaps way more working class people, though culturally even the very poorest in some areas had an emphasis on education.

You see that sort of attitude among immigrant populations these days - first generation works their ass off driving a cab, running a small shop.. but big emphasis on education for the kids with a goal for them to become doctors, lawyers etc...

Lots of the people born to previous generations of unemployed or low paid people are now middle class so the current pool of white British people at the bottom perhaps includes a higher portion of people born into families where there isn’t much emphasis on hard work etc... it’s also easier these days to be a dosser, previously you’d have to find some sort of work. If you’re born into a family of dole monkeys then perhaps there isn’t much encouragement, incentive to do anything.

I do wonder how much social mobility being down is due to the government vs being due to the fact we previously had a shift and now lots of the people who were on the bottom but had potential, moved up and their descendants stayed up there. Obvs the majority of the population is white British. If we were to look at some immigrant groups do we see a different picture of social mobility? For people who haven’t been here for generations are they still finding the ability to move up in a generation? Probs varies a lot between groups but again emphasis on education etc... is perhaps key here.
 
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