Is China on to something?

[Dis86]

https://www.businessinsider.de/why-...zing-china-uighur-repression-2018-8?r=UK&IR=T

Interesting. I knew China was oppressing it's Muslim populations but not to this scale.

Interesting that they're facing no criticism from Islamic countries isn't it? It's almost like they're hypocritical states run by those only concerned with lining their own pockets...

Also can't help but question where all the mass terror attacks are in protest at this treatment or have China somehow found a solution to the problem? Perhaps we should try what they're doing over here in Europe? After all it seems to work and nobody is speaking out against it so win-win?

 

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Just to clarify? Are you suggesting we should start ethnic cleansing and forced interment based on ethnicity?

I guess it goes with the suggestions of extreme violence against immigrants by a couple of others in the other thread though...

Well if we did do that nobody could complain since they're certainly not complaining about China doing it. Which is entirely my point.

We treat all of our citizens (relatively) well and yet live under a heavy threat of mass terrorist attack. We as in western Europe. We have taken in Muslim refugees from all over the world, many of whom have paid us back in blood and violence (see the current sweden thread as an example).
China treats some of its citizens worse than animals (don't even get me started on how some of its animals are treat) and yet they don't have mass attacks. Yes, as @Freakbro has pointed out individuals have been caught up or targetted overseas but generally in China itself they're more restricted to isolated stabbings.

 

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Actually, a lot fo people are complaining about it.


No we don;t the risks are extremely low, far lower than through the 70s,80s, 90s and early 2000s.


No, a very small minority have.




No, china mainland gets attacked as well, they just don't publish and keep western media details to a minimum.

Multiple citations needed! The whole point of the article I linked is people really aren't complaining.

 

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Just... Wow

Wow what? China's policies? Countries acceptance of these policies? The blind eye turned by the rest of the world?
Our acceptance of China's policies by continuing to buy Chinese products thus supporting their regime?

 

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Wow at this:

What, you don't want to prevent mass terror attacks?
Are you a terrorist sympethiser? My god, are you one of them?

Or perhaps you could string a paragraph together with some salient points?

 

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Firstly, i dont think economical strong arming and oppressing minorities are a good way of limiting terror attacks. Suggesting what they do over there and call it a win-win is pretty awful.

Secondly, just because Islamic countries dont care, doesn't mean we shouldn't. It's not plastered all over the news because China not only heavily censors what is reported but it does not stir a huge reaction as it isn't the current hot topic. You will find far more people outraged by a Romanian family getting a temporary home in the UK, than the reported oppression mentioned in OP - disgusting really.

It's win-win because it's clearly not inciting mass terror attacks against civilians and seemingly nobody is objecting to it.
Unless of course people do object to it and they're just keeping shtum for...reasons? And these attacks aren't msterialising for...reasons?

You clearly object to what China is doing therefore can I ask if you're boycotting Chinese products? If not then you're complicit so you can't really take the moral high-ground can you?

 

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No oppression is win-win, saying that does not make me a hypocrite no matter where my products come from. Given your attitude, I should refuse to pay tax or purchase anything from UK companies because I don't agree on some foreign policy or something.

Do you currently boycott all products made in the east or manufactured by companies in the west with Chinese machinery/electronics?

You've posted some pretty nasty thing on China, yet anyone who disagrees with it or is outspoken against it should not take that view because you name them complicit. Do you want to troll or do you want a discussion, because it seems that you have chosen everyone's views for them and are ready to reply accusing them of supporting this oppression.

That's a pretty contradictory post.

But to clarify if you are buying Chinese products, a choice, then you are supporting the Chinese regime committing these acts. So if you are choosing to buy them then you cannot take the moral high ground against anyone who supports the Chinese stance.
You were the one calling me abhorrent over the win-win statement yet seemingly don't like it when I point out your economic activities are supporting that situation.

 

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I just disagree that you can't actively speak out against it even if a small portion of the money ends up with the regime. I think that attitude is dangerous and abhorrent.

I don't have to agree with your abhorrent moral view or your ridiculous mental gymnastics. Call it contradictory and call it hypocritical but i disagree.

What mental gymnastics are these? It's straight forward!

Oppression = bad.

Giving money to oppressors = bad.

What's confusing about that?

 

[Dis86]

Interesting assertion, let's test it.

I buy Chinese products, I oppose the stance of the Chinese government as laid out in the article linked in the OP. Yep, turns out I can buy Chinese goods and still not approve of the regime.

You could argue that I can't legitimately take that position, but you'd still be wrong, because purchasing cheap Chinese tat on occasion does not represent a tacit acceptance of everything any Chinese person, organisation, or regime does. I sign no contract at point of sale that says that by purchasing this Chinese made lamp I am signalling my support of the Chinese state, when it's delivered I don't get a CPC members card.

Now if you had said "You support the extermination of Muslims in Myanmar, therefore it's somewhat hypocritical to oppose the same situation in China", you'd be closer to the truth, however even there you'd need both circumstances to be extremely similar for your mental gymnastics to be relevant.

Just because you sign no contract doesn't mean you don't support something. By contributing towards the Chinese state you are contributing towards their actions. The blood, however tiny a speck it may be, is still on your hands.

 

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You're starting to sound like an extremist. Im pretty sure that is the type of thinking the Muslim extremists use to justify the killing of civilians in western countries.

Yet not the logic they use when it comes to China - see my point yet?

 

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I do see your point but Im not sure it is correct. Freakbro posted earlier that there are Muslim extremist attacks in China only Im guessing the state stops any of the news from coming out as they are very controlling of the media as everyone knows.

As I pointed out, yes there are attacks, but they're isolated individuals. Not the mass attacks that we've seen throughout Western Europe and tbh other Asian countries such as Pakistan and India. We all know that Pakistan is a special one as the government and army have been shown to be complicit as well.

More so my point is why aren't Muslim countries speaking out? Well...the article gives the answer. Yet when a Western country does something - however slight - we see protests, flag burnings, state criticism.

 

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Genuine question, how do we really know there hasnt been any mass attacks? We dont know a great amount of what does or doesnt go on there as the media is state controlled. If we dont know then I dont suppose many Muslim countries are in the know either. China is very good at letting the world know about things they want to let you know about unless theres a leak. Of course as the article say money also talks.

Because when someone so much as lets go of a pungent guff over here every terrorist group on the planet tries to claim it. It's what helps further their cause. We hear of none of that. Also Chinese tourism and emigration is much more widespread and again we're not hearing of attacks from these people.

 

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@Freakbro good summary. The thing is they're all ethnic Chinese. My point is they're not external attackers like a lot seem to be in the West.

 

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The actions of China have been in the news on and off for at least a year that I can remember. Just because our government have double standards when it comes to action and talk about different countries doesn’t mean others aren’t speaking out about it (but generally means it’s less likely to make headline news).

In an ideal world politics wouldn’t come before reprimand and action, but it does.

Gross generalizations and collective punishment is not the way to go, no one should be emulating China in that regard.

But it's not just our country and government. The main point is where are all these Islamic states rising up against them? Salman Rushdie has a fatwa against him for writing a book, these ******* are oppressing nigh on a million people in a brutal fashion aaaand - nada. Zip. Nothing.

 

[Dis86]

Why should they any more than anyone else?

Do you think Christian countries should complain when Christians are being oppressed elsewhere specifically because they’re Christian?

You’re presumably making the logical fallacy that because these people are Muslim then the Islamic states somehow have a connection to them far greater than other states? Islam is a religion, not a homogenous group identity. The assumption of the latter is a problem we see day in day out.

In other news it seems (some of) your call has been answered though Dis, both the UN and some members of the US are now calling China out.

Why should they? They condemn the West for every attack that's carried out in an Islamic country.
When terrorists carry out attacks in the West the excuse is always because of the Wests and oppression of Muslims.
As we both know certain terrorist cells have state funding from various Islamic countries.

Take the recent removal of American contributions from UN aid to Palestine. It's been robustly condemned by many Islamic countries. China has the forced disappearance of thousands and they don't bat an eyelid.

 

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Every Islamic country, or countries situated next to them, in their region?

And which countries are we discussing specifically? Many Islamic countries have been allies in western actions in Islamic countries. Just because Iran condemns US actions in Iraq or Syria doesn’t mean all Islamic countries condemn all actions.

Each individual Muslim dominated country has its own policies and political agendas, just as each Christian dominated country does (and all countries in general).

If we’re discussing terrorist organizations then it’s a different matter entirely. Personally I don't read IS news releases so don’t know their policies on Chinese oppression of Muslims. Terrorist organizations aren’t exactly accurate spokespeople for people they claim to represent anyway. They use excuses to justify the actions they want to take.

Multiple inter-spaced states. Not just neighbours.

And you're right when you say all Islamic countries don't condemn all actions but there is a blistering lack of any condemnation towards China.

 

[Dis86]

Ok cool.

Doesn't really change anything though does it?

I mean it's an interesting explanation for why thiet numbers are so low but it doesn't change the outcome? So I'm not sure what you're tryinf to get at.

France and the UK deserve terrorist attacks because of thier colonial history?

The irony is what China's doing now is effectively colonialism!

 

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No strings attached loans? Building your countries infrastructure?

For the small price of not accepting Taiwan as a separate entity, i'd take that deal and run. Of course China will eventually start landing troops in Africa when these deals turn into military expansion, but whatever, corrupt poopy bums aren't going to care about that and Africa has probably the most transparent corruption there is.

It's a race to recapture Africa and the West already lost decades ago, it's easy ******* growth for China at a vital turning point in their ascendancy.

The military are already there. I've had to deal with the results.

Uses to work for an oil company and we were carrying out surveying work on land we had a licence for. Kept coming across Chinese survey teams who had a full military escort and would block our teams or even confiscate their gear. Reported their presence to the local government who knew about them and basically told us 'tough luck' despite us having paid for the exclusive rights to the area.

 

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I mean don't some western teams have full escorts too? Admittedly it'd be the local military or PMC's but, i mean Oil is generally unsafe work (in Africa).

Yeah. Our guys did but these were Chinese army and were in areas they had no license to be in. They also had ifvs and much heavier weapons.
The armed guards are normally to prevent kidnap, not to annex an area.

 

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Their license is the ability to strongarm in, if you can't defend what you own, then you don't own it. Kinda a basic rule of owning things tbh.

Not in the civilised world it isn't.