Is it time to ban LED Headlights

[CaptainRAVE]

Head on collisions have increased recently and they think LED headlights are the cause of it. Still being looked in to afaik.

I have had a few moments where I've had to just keep the car straight and hope for the best because I just couldn't see anything. Especially in low cars.

My car is low, so I definitely get it worse. The auto beams/matrix lights are also too slow to react. Too often they switch off just too slowly if you come round a blind bend. Unfortunately it’s most cars now whereas years ago it was just the odd car.

 

[robj20]

Head on collisions have increased recently and they think LED headlights are the cause of it. Still being looked in to afaik.

I have had a few moments where I've had to just keep the car straight and hope for the best because I just couldn't see anything. Especially in low cars.

I've done similar a few times, just can't see so use the force instead.
Brighter isn't better, of anything I'd say it's worse for night driving past a certain level because it takes away your night sight, the brighter your lights are the darker everything else appears. You need enough light to do the job not more is better.
When you do need more, well that's what full beam is for.
The obsession with white and blue light is silly as well, does nothing to help you see better, if the goal was to see better you'd want green.

 

[cuke2u]

I've done similar a few times, just can't see so use the force instead.
Brighter isn't better, of anything I'd say it's worse for night driving past a certain level because it takes away your night sight, the brighter your lights are the darker everything else appears. You need enough light to do the job not more is better.
When you do need more, well that's what full beam is for.

I have a M235i yet never once have I been dazzled when driving in all conditions, it also has adaptive LED's. But when I drive our other car, with halogens, it is more of a challenge especially if it's raining hard because they are simply not bright enough to penetrate the distance in front of the car and light up the kerb. Thus I consider it safer to drive the BMW at night, than the other car.

In the US they do set maximum lumens for LED headlights, I believe their legislation has only more recently permitted adaptive LED's to be fitted, than in the rest of the world. There is a 327 document of the ruling here https://www.nhtsa.gov/sites/nhtsa.gov/files/2022-02/ADB-Final-Rule-02-01-2022-web.pdf if anyone cares care to read it.

 

[Nasher]

I've done similar a few times, just can't see so use the force instead.
Brighter isn't better, of anything I'd say it's worse for night driving past a certain level because it takes away your night sight, the brighter your lights are the darker everything else appears. You need enough light to do the job not more is better.
When you do need more, well that's what full beam is for.
The obsession with white and blue light is silly as well, does nothing to help you see better, if the goal was to see better you'd want green.

Yep, blue light is wasted energy really. But there is a fad with lights looking super "white". If you put 6000k+ lights in your house it would look ******* awful and cause eye strain.

 

[robj20]

I have a M235i yet never once have I been dazzled when driving in all conditions, it also has adaptive LED's. But when I drive our other car, with halogens, it is more of a challenge especially if it's raining hard because they are simply not bright enough to penetrate the distance in front of the car and light up the kerb. Thus I consider it safer to drive the BMW at night, than the other car.

In the US they do set maximum lumens for LED headlights, I believe their legislation has only more recently permitted adaptive LED's to be fitted, than in the rest of the world. There is a 327 document of the ruling here https://www.nhtsa.gov/sites/nhtsa.gov/files/2022-02/ADB-Final-Rule-02-01-2022-web.pdf if anyone cares care to read it.

Your right all through the 80s 90s people were crashing left right and centre because of halogen lights. Why have they all of a sudden become useless?

 

[[TW]Fox]

Your right all through the 80s 90s people were crashing left right and centre

This actually was happening though. Look at road safety statistics now compared with back then and you'll see that vehicle safety has had a huge downward impact on the number of accidents over a time where the number of cars on the road has increased significantly.

 

[Nasher]

This actually was happening though. Look at road safety statistics now compared with back then and you'll see that vehicle safety has had a huge downward impact on the number of accidents over a time where the number of cars on the road has increased significantly.

But mainly because of other factors. No traction control, no ABS, tyres weren't anywhere near as good, speed limits everywhere were higher and no cameras...

People didn't tend to crash because they were blinded by headlights. This is a very recent thing.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

Masher just making up stuff off the cuff as usual. The guy has no bounds

 

[jpaul]

would be interesting to know how Mr Musks autopilot/lane keeping responds if the oncoming car is dazzling ... but guess even other cars use cameras for that (or up to date gps ?)

[
see reddit has it's own subsection https://www.reddit.com/r/****yourhe...3ya/why_your_eyes_hurt_preliminary_headlight/
below - they found many abuses against a higher standard where there were overly bright points across the throw beneath cut-off - that would catch drivers eyes on bumpy road/hills

Spoiler: usa light measures

]

 

[[TW]Fox]

People didn't tend to crash because they were blinded by headlights

Have you looked at the data that generated the headline?

It shows no clear trend - the year with the highest number of such contributory factors is actually 2013. Since then there has been a significant increase in the number of vehicles on the road fitted with the headlights in question and yet the statistics show if anything a decline in the number of incidents where a recorded contributory factor (Which isn't the same thing as the overall reason) was headlights.

It would be interesting to see the same statistics but for 2002-2012 and compare then.

Nobody ever bothers to think about these things before they read a headline.

 

[ianh]

I have a M235i yet never once have I been dazzled when driving in all conditions, it also has adaptive LED's. But when I drive our other car, with halogens, it is more of a challenge especially if it's raining hard because they are simply not bright enough to penetrate the distance in front of the car and light up the kerb. Thus I consider it safer to drive the BMW at night, than the other car.

So that means that you have to slow down and drive at a safer speed where both the wet conditions and the lack of visibility are far safer to negotiate doesn't it. I mean, please tell me thats what you do right, you slow down and therefore drive safer?

I have a M235i yet never once have I been dazzled when driving in all conditions, it also has adaptive LED's. But when I drive our other car, with halogens, it is more of a challenge especially if it's raining hard because they are simply not bright enough to penetrate the distance in front of the car and light up the kerb. Thus I consider it safer to drive the BMW at night, than the other car.

It looks like you seem to choose the BMW which you can drive "faster" (or without having to slow down is more accurate) than when in the Halogen car, all whilst in badly lit and wet conditions, because you can see further which makes you "feel" safer - That doesn't sound very "safe" to me though but you do you I suppose.

 

[Greebo]

Yeah, it needs a study. There is a trade off between brighter lights helping the driver see and impairing the ability of others to see.

I see the automatic levelling thing is mentioned in that. That's great - and they do help - but roads are neither flat nor smooth, and these systems can be unreliable (the one on my Seat stopped working properly and when I looked it up it's apparently a problem across the whole VAG group) so they're not a panacea.

I'll be interested to see what this study finds. I'm kind of surprised nowhere else has looked into this already, though. Isn't there data already?

Biggest issue is that automatic levelling doesnt act fast enough. Roads have too many bumps. I see it all the time with my matrix led headlamps at night. The car in front may well be in a black box but as soon as I go over a bump you can see the headlights light up the inside of the car in front.

Old headlights used to do the same, difference is new headlights will be 2000 lumens.

 

[jpaul]

if car is using matrix , that would not need any mechanical self-levelling to instantly cut the top row of lights when bump arrives, or pot-hole rebound; full DLP could do even better (let me patent that)

 

[Greebo]

if car is using matrix , that would not need any mechanical self-levelling to instantly cut the top row of lights when bump arrives, or pot-hole rebound; full DLP could do even better (let me patent that)

its the speed of it reacting that fast. Maybe it could in future. Anything is possible

 

[Jonnycoupe]

if car is using matrix , that would not need any mechanical self-levelling to instantly cut the top row of lights when bump arrives, or pot-hole rebound; full DLP could do even better (let me patent that)

Thats right, it uses the camera which is usually higher than drivers eyes so its certainbly a step in the right direction, Pixel more so as you have more resolution for zones too.

 

[[TW]Fox]

Biggest issue is that automatic levelling doesnt act fast enough.

Isn't it there to take the place of the manual levelling system - therefore for adjusting the headlights when you are towing a trailer or have a heavy load? I don't think it was ever intended to automatically level based on the road conditions.

 

[Rroff]

I have a M235i yet never once have I been dazzled when driving in all conditions, it also has adaptive LED's. But when I drive our other car, with halogens, it is more of a challenge especially if it's raining hard because they are simply not bright enough to penetrate the distance in front of the car and light up the kerb. Thus I consider it safer to drive the BMW at night, than the other car.

I've had no problems since swapping to Philips X-tremeVision for halogens - if you are outrunning those you are definitely driving too quickly for the conditions. Some of the generic brand halogens are utterly pathetic though.

 

[413x]

Exactly.

I live in the fens and the roads are awful, so even what appears to be a straight flat road is more like a roller coaster track, and on coming vehicles headlights dancing in your eyes.

SUVs in particular the headlights are at eye level and can really blind you.

I don't understand why either, I live in a rural area, no street lights and very rarely need full beams and can see perfectly fine with regular 10 year old non-led headlights.

Same.

Car is an old 2008 Peugeot and I never really use full beams.

 

[MrRockliffe]

Still haven’t had any issues with cars which have proper factory fitted LEDs.


Every situation I’ve had where I’ve been blinded has been on an older car with LEDs fitted in a reflector housing



Struggling to sympathise with others in the thread as just haven’t been impacted yet.

 

[Rroff]

Everyone is a bit different as well when it comes to night vision (apparently your eye colour is also a factor there) and being dazzled by lights - my dad struggles a lot with it while my mum is barely dazzled by bright lights at night at all. My night vision is actually well above average in the dark but I'm also more easily dazzled by headlights than average.