Is the end of Battery EVs coming?

[Jonnycoupe]

Land Rover removed all the buttons in the RR and RR Sport - so you’re just left with a large (laggy) display and some Piano black trim
The RR badge is ‘in another league’, not sure about the rest of it.

Dual chamber airprings 6D Hydrualic roll and pitch control not too dissimilar to the McLaren 750S and carbon brakes. Nanoe-X cabin filtration. Haptic seats.

Rumour is they even have heated front screens...

Certainly agree you arent sure about the rest of it.

 

[adam cool dude]

Should we rename this thread the ‘***The official EV greatest hits thread****’?

As for Harry, the reality is Harry wanted a Range Rover that only cost £lol to run instead of the £mega lol of the petrol version.

He had to make something up in a video to justify the diesel as that’s a bit taboo these days to keep the audience of his content happy. A bit of EV bashing is par for the course isn’t it?

If he’d just said he fancied a change and liked the Range Rover, the video wouldn’t be getting the sort of traction it is.

Or he could simply have a valid point. His points are exactly my concerns as my needs are similar to his in that I need a car that can do big miles without stopping.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

He still compared the price of a diesel to a PHEV like it was about the car and not the vastly different APR. Thats misleading regardless of your angle.

Its generally always 'concerns' and rarely the experience on the big miles talk anyway.

 

[Nasher]

Starts at £171k and is another league to a polestar let’s be honest. People don’t buy these cars for value for money

90litre tank and 22mpg is a 440 mile range too

They definitely don't buy them for value for money, or build quality. Just the badge for some reason.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

I don't have a horse in this race but your incessant waaaaaa every time someone says something negative about EVs is quite amusing

If the negative things which people say were actually based on reality then I’d happy to discuss it.

If your use case is to tow a car trailer or a horse box half way across the country every weekend when I wouldn’t recommend an EV.

I tow with an EV so I do actually have some real world experience and no, the chargers aren’t really set up for it and your vehicle choice is much more restrictive. In reality that’s a tiny edge case, even the caravaners only go >100 miles a few times a year.

The video went well beyond that though as has already been stated.

We get it, you drive an EV, you like EVs, you see EVs as the future of transport and no other vehicle will ever matter again and anyone who comes up with any other idea is wrong.

I’ve never taken that position. I’m pretty open minded and could can probably attribute that open mindedness as to one of the reasons why I have a EV but I also live in the real world where economics and time also exist.

Can we circle back to the hydrogen discussion now or is that too soon?

The hydrogen discussion is as dead as the technology is in cars. Thats not because it doesn’t work, it does, and works very well.

The issue is the economics have been completely blown out the water by battery passenger cars. Particularly now cheaper LFP batteries are getting very close to NCA/NMC chemistries in terms of density and more than good enough the vast majority of cars.

Hydrogens issue is the cost of the fuel and only saviour is if they can make it cost 1/5 to 1/4 it does now.

The issue is that you can only make it substantially cheaper is through the cost of the electricity because the process is limited by physics not technology. That creates an obvious issue where BEVs also get cheaper by the same rate at the same time.

So in summary hydrogen fuel cells are great and they have a wide range of applications. Mass market cars are not one of them because of the economics.

ICE cars powered by hydrogen are not going to be a thing because of the nox issue. There simply isn’t going to be a place for them in towns and cities.

Will you get hydrogen ICE plant and heavy lift vehicles, sure, that’s absolutely going to be a thing, just not on cars.

 

[Simon]

Everyone knows the future in here. It’s pretty incredible to read the authority and factual nature of some of the posts.

 

[bigmike20vt]

I was giving him the benefit of the doubt and assuming he meant most journeys (e.g. things like commuting into the office for people who could easily WFH), rather than the obviously unavoidable things like visiting family etc.

Of course you're never going to eliminate all need for in-person travel, but we do make a lot of journeys which could be avoided via technology these days.

there is truth in that. a lot of people are dead set against WFH. I love WFH and only go in the office 2 days a week, it's very job depending however and there is a very real possibility 10 years from now many of the jobs that can be dnne wfh will be able to be done with AI. which is kind of exciting but mostly terrifying imo.

I will say tho if everyone worked from home there would be the side effect of a lot of businesses which are supported by a travelling work force would go out of business .

to a point it's inevitable but I do wonder what will happen to the economy when computers can do 50% of everyone's jobs. but I guess that is for another thread.

 

[SDK^]

Dual chamber airprings 6D Hydrualic roll and pitch control not too dissimilar to the McLaren 750S and carbon brakes. Nanoe-X cabin filtration. Haptic seats.

Rumour is they even have heated front screens...

Certainly agree you arent sure about the rest of it.

The Polestar 3 has adaptive air suspension and Brembo brakes. Obviously it’s not a track car anyway.
Really not seeing the £100k+ difference
How many carbon brake sets and ‘soul body’ seats does that buy

 

[bigmike20vt]

I don't have a horse in this race but your incessant waaaaaa every time someone says something negative about EVs is quite amusing


We get it, you drive an EV, you like EVs, you see EVs as the future of transport and no other vehicle will ever matter again and anyone who comes up with any other idea is wrong.


Can we circle back to the hydrogen discussion now or is that too soon?

what is there to discuss? hydrogen is an incredibly precious commodity which we need to use a lot of.
it takes a crapton of electricity to make and only (from memory) 20% of it is green.

maybe one day things will change but for the foreseeable future burning H2 in cars is about as cost effective and sensible as using stacks of £20 notes to burn in a fire to warm your home. it's technically possible but there are far better uses of said £20 notes and far better ways to heat your house.
add to that everyone arguing for H2 in cars complains about the time to charge a car and the cost of EV public charging whilst ignoring both the time to fill a car with H2 and the cost.

 

[Simon]

The Polestar 3 has adaptive air suspension and Brembo brakes. Obviously it’s not a track car anyway.
Really not seeing the £100k+ difference
How many carbon brake sets and ‘soul body’ seats does that buy

Interior looks pretty insane on the RR. We get it you are a polestar fanboy but come on.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

The Polestar 3 has adaptive air suspension and Brembo brakes. Obviously it’s not a track car anyway.
Really not seeing the £100k+ difference
How many carbon brake sets and ‘soul body’ seats does that buy

Not even close to 6D dynamic or ceramics. Or carbon wheels.

The ride refinement and noise is another level amongst its peers and closer to an S class.

And this is from the guy who put the active roll system 48V (not adaptive dampers, 2005 XK was doing that) in the standard sport, the range of engines including the V8… whereas you read a press release. Special place this forum at times.

Knowing the price of stuff doesn’t mean you understand the value.

 

[SDK^]

Not even close to 6D dynamic or ceramics. Or carbon wheels.

The ride refinement and noise is another level amongst its peers and closer to an S class.

And this is from the guy who put the active roll system 48V (not adaptive dampers, 2005 XK was doing that) in the standard sport, the range of engines including the V8… whereas you read a press release. Special place this forum at times.

Knowing the price of stuff doesn’t mean you understand the value.

Likewise - have you driven a Polester 3 to compare ? Not saying the RR sport isn't better, but worth over twice the price, no chance ! Most mums on the school run would not notice the McLaren suspension
The other point - you can order a Polestar 3, the RR Sport SV is apparently all sold out and there is no config on the website.

 

[bigmike20vt]

Likewise - have you driven a Polester 3 to compare ? Not saying the RR sport isn't better, but worth over twice the price, no chance !

Whilst objectively that may be true that is the case for all high marque vehicles.

I mean is a Porsche 911turbo really worth 3 times as much as a 370z for instance .(totally guessing at price). it's certainly not 3x the vehicle in any objective sense

1) you do pay for the badge
2) any gear not just automotive the top 10% of high end stuff costs exponentially more (just look at GPUs for example - given we are on a computer forum)

 

[Jonnycoupe]

Likewise - have you driven a Polester 3 to compare ? Not saying the RR sport isn't better, but worth over twice the price, no chance ! Most mums on the school run would not notice the McLaren suspension
The other point - you can order a Polestar 3, the RR Sport SV is apparently all sold out and there is no config on the website.

Exactly, its so expensive yet its sold out, yet my mate at Polestar had to change his Polestar 3 order to a 2 due to the delays. RR sport SV is likely to have lost less aswell in the TOC when you come to sell it!

What point are you exactly trying to make. My IPACE is faster than a polestar 3 and amazingly cheaper anyway. RR sport SV at 3.6 to 60 and 180mph is frankly A N O T H E R league and indeed segment altogether. comparing the two is frankly ludacrous! Put down the Polestar Kool-aid Wuhan Clan, its on the same shelf as the Telsa stuff! Turning your brain to mush. 510bhp in an EV is nothing like 635bhp ICE.

Please dont use 'likewise', its pretty embarrassing for you. But then again you roll around in an iX

 

[m4rmite]

Loving the snobbery of the experts and the personal slights.
I keep forgetting its half term.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

Loving the snobbery of the experts and the personal slights.
I keep forgetting its half term.

Thanks for the insight. Name lives up.

Snobbery? Give your head a wobble.

 

[m4rmite]

Thanks for the insight. Name lives up.

Snobbery? Give your head a wobble.

Did i hit a nerve for you to think i was talking about you?
name lives up? there we go again with the slights.

Wobble away

 

[Jonnycoupe]

people will either love or hate your posts that’s all.
I didn’t like it

You said expert… that’s me.

 

[jpaul]

looking up RR sport weight 2.5T - you need the active ARB, do they even try to use lightweight materials or providing you are at the 6000lb gross weight for the usa tax reduction everyones happy
(you'll always have Paris though)

 

[Jonnycoupe]

It’s pretty much standard on the dynamic spec the 48V active roll. It’s not a performance car.

The SV doesn’t have anti rolls bars at all due to the hydraulic 6D system. Similar to what you find on the Perusague Ferrari and I’m keen to understand what the Macan EV active ride is for £6000…

Bit off topic now.

The science experiment continues and the gaping hole that BIK has created means second hand EV has dropped into a chasm, huge number of company car drivers with, frankly, champagne cars for beer money are returning cars which are now seemingly being sold at Presecco prices.

What 6000lb tax reduction?