Is the MMORPG dead or dying?
- Thread starter spudbynight
- Start date
It's a tricky one balancing PvP versus those who don't like PvP.
I remember playing Runescape back in the day, and warring clans were great fun. If you joined in with one of the big clans, you could be spending hours on a night fighting other clans.
I think the issue is when they tweak some of the settings, you end up upsetting a huge player base. There's also the issue of when they release more valuable items into the game, and people lose those during PvP they get pretty ******.
Its not really tricky, it should be this is a PVE mmo, if you want to PVP then its in special PVP zones which are no different to the PVE apart from ganking. No special resource that forces you to in that zone and we will not change pve skills for pvp.
If that means everyone runs the same cookie cutter builds then tough imo.
If that means everyone runs the same cookie cutter builds then tough imo.
Associate
- Joined
- 21 Sep 2003
- Posts
- 407
What happened with The Secret World? I read that people hated when it relaunched as f2p, but what was so different/wrong with it?
It all depends the designers who did the game from the very start.
Take ESO for example. The game was initially designed with PVP end game (Cyrodiil). An area bigger than the Elder Scrolls Oblivion, which you can still PVE shall you wish. (and explore especially).
Nobody forces anyone to do anything. PVP especially can be done with crafted & overland sets mostly. So no need to do dungeon or trials. And vice versa.
Even if you need some specific set from PVP or Motif (eg militant ordinator) is guaranteed you will find those items on the guild stores for gold.
This I would also like to know. After swg closed I played on the emu for a bit but didn't feel the same, especially having to restart after years of input. I have yet to find another mmo which feels like swg once did and offered all it did, so might give the emu another go now. Keep the core mechanics of the game, update the graphics and some areas and id like to think a new version would do well, if only it were being made...
Wow ruined real, fun, skill based mmos.
Blizzard made a very dumbed down mmo, that was easy, with cartoony graphics, to appeal to new people.
Dont get me wrong, blizzard are very good at what they do, and wow is a cash cow, but the real roots and skill of mmos is gone
Seems AO is still about, with a peak of 3 players that last 30 days lol
Blizzard made a very dumbed down mmo, that was easy, with cartoony graphics, to appeal to new people.
Dont get me wrong, blizzard are very good at what they do, and wow is a cash cow, but the real roots and skill of mmos is gone
Seems AO is still about, with a peak of 3 players that last 30 days lol
Last edited:
Associate
- Joined
- 31 Dec 2008
- Posts
- 1,400
I played secret world when it was subscription then buy to pay with optional sub. When it went f2p they changed very little but made it so you had to start from scratch on a new character. But what they did change was they dumbed down the cool skill wheel system to a boring cookie cutter class sytem like every other mmo. Very reminescent of swg nge imo.
Associate
- Joined
- 21 Sep 2003
- Posts
- 407
Ah, that's interesting. I did (albeit very briefly) play it when it was a pay to play and remember the skill wheel - am I right in thinking it meant you could completely freestyle your character?
Yeah, the worst thing that happened to MMO's was the level system being implemented.
Ultima Online was one of my first MMO's, 20 years ago now. No levelling system in place, if you wanted to be a master blacksmith you'd go and spend hours mining building up your mining experience, then you'd go and work with all that ore and build you blacksmithing/armour/weapon crafting skills until you were a master. Master meant something then, and everyone was different.
Same with SWG, skill-based system was great. Master animal trainer, obtained by spending hours training creatures. You know it was a grind, but with a good guild, it was always fun. SWG was ruined when they changed it to a class based system. screw you if you'd spent 3 months becoming a jedi, now you could be one from the start.
Ultima Online was one of my first MMO's, 20 years ago now. No levelling system in place, if you wanted to be a master blacksmith you'd go and spend hours mining building up your mining experience, then you'd go and work with all that ore and build you blacksmithing/armour/weapon crafting skills until you were a master. Master meant something then, and everyone was different.
Same with SWG, skill-based system was great. Master animal trainer, obtained by spending hours training creatures. You know it was a grind, but with a good guild, it was always fun. SWG was ruined when they changed it to a class based system. screw you if you'd spent 3 months becoming a jedi, now you could be one from the start.
Usual pattern...
Subscription MMO is announced and promises:
Skill based tree
Permadeath
Casuals complain.
Permadeath never happens
Class based system introduced
Hype dies, casuals ignore the game anyway.
Numbers crash, game goes F2P, game dies.
RIP.
Subscription MMO is announced and promises:
Skill based tree
Permadeath
Casuals complain.
Permadeath never happens
Class based system introduced
Hype dies, casuals ignore the game anyway.
Numbers crash, game goes F2P, game dies.
RIP.
Associate
- Joined
- 20 Mar 2014
- Posts
- 2,361
Lineage 2 was my MMORPG. Got a bit hard to level though at later stages and you needed a large group to level. Took ages to organise and you couldn't solo.
Wow came out and it was all about quests. I'd rather just grind or kill raid bosses in a group. Also instancing sucks.
Taking control of a levelling area with your clan and stopping people levelling in the best spots was great.. also Castle sieges. Wow has no large scale pvp. Well maybe in vanilla but there was no objective.
Looking forward to lineage 3 if NCSoft get their act together.
Wow came out and it was all about quests. I'd rather just grind or kill raid bosses in a group. Also instancing sucks.
Taking control of a levelling area with your clan and stopping people levelling in the best spots was great.. also Castle sieges. Wow has no large scale pvp. Well maybe in vanilla but there was no objective.
Looking forward to lineage 3 if NCSoft get their act together.
Yeah, the worst thing that happened to MMO's was the level system being implemented.
Ultima Online was one of my first MMO's, 20 years ago now. No levelling system in place, if you wanted to be a master blacksmith you'd go and spend hours mining building up your mining experience, then you'd go and work with all that ore and build you blacksmithing/armour/weapon crafting skills until you were a master. Master meant something then, and everyone was different.
Same with SWG, skill-based system was great. Master animal trainer, obtained by spending hours training creatures. You know it was a grind, but with a good guild, it was always fun. SWG was ruined when they changed it to a class based system. screw you if you'd spent 3 months becoming a jedi, now you could be one from the start.
+1 for UO, best MMORPG ever and one of many games ruined by EA.
Personally never got the fascination with permadeath - very few people actually want permadeath though anyhow so any game that implements it as a core concept is pretty much dead before it started. Though I've always found it strange that these kind of games don't use a form of it as a balancing factor.
Tbh permadeath isn't something I've ever seen mentioned in wants for mmo's. Eve or Ultima where you lose skill points and all your gear really add something to the game, and it's something that's making a comeback in survival games like Rust, however, at the same time, it's driven me mad at times like working an 18 hour shift then turning Eve on and losing my brand new battleship by accidentally firing on station guns
Associate
- Joined
- 9 Jul 2012
- Posts
- 694
- Location
- Nottingham
Permadeath in an mmo is the dumbest idea ever imo because all that'll happen is the game with launch a bunch of people will level together hit max level then bank low level areas killing people so they can't game new person quits game dies due to lack of audience because of people ganking
Personally I do like what rune Scape do/ did that if you died you lost the majority of the gear in your inventory and the others could loot it
Personally I do like what rune Scape do/ did that if you died you lost the majority of the gear in your inventory and the others could loot it
When you consider we are now in a real world where people "subscribe" for everything entertainment related..
Crunchyroll
Netflix
NowTV etc
The idea of paying monthly for a game is something which might work again but it needs to catch fire in terms of popularity and like it or not, would need to be cross platform (PC and Mobile).
Crunchyroll
Netflix
NowTV etc
The idea of paying monthly for a game is something which might work again but it needs to catch fire in terms of popularity and like it or not, would need to be cross platform (PC and Mobile).
Amen. UO, DAOC, SB, EVE, SWG pre-date WoW by years, some almost a decade (UO). Yet the whole genre went pear shape and total crap ever since, with clones popping up and dying quickly.
Also even MMOFPS games like Planetside 1 went pear shape, due to COD idiocy making Planetside 2 which is a COD clone but in greater scale.
Also amazing games like Darkfall (similar to SB) weren't liked from the community because "too difficult and doesn't run on my (potato) laptop".
At least there is ESO the last 5 years.
EVE went into a cesspit when it became P2W, almost 13 years ago. Until that point it was fantastic game. The economy was working properly and each alliance was actually working and expanding based of the common effort.
Since