Is the snake oil slowly retreating from the Hi-Fi industry?

9designs2 said:
The point about the PC comparison is that spending large to improve a benchmark score is equally a waste of money as some one buying questionable HiFi accessories that possible gives them an amount of pleasure as well. So who is to judge and mock? You’d have to be doing serious heavy duty real work to actually see number crunching improvement in the super hot rod PC rig.
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Benchmark improvements can be proven. The vast majorty of these audiophile products that get lumped under the 'snake oil' monika can not be proven in any way. Why are you suggesting they are at all similar? Your objection (now) seems to be spending money on benchmarks is pointless. Ok, it might be for the average user, but we arent all average users. What about people who actively take part in competitions? Or, for that matter, what about people who DO do heavy work on their PCs? what about the renderers among us spending way way beyond what i would spend to save a few % on their render times when, as you know, time is money for those folk. Are you trying to suggest they are wasting their money too?

A renderer will see a better return when buying faster gear - this can be proven
A benchmarker will see better results when buying faster gear - this can be proven
An audiophile will shun any actual testing and insist he hears an improvement from his 'monocrystal power cord' or his 'directional speaker cables' - We can't prove this can we?
 
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Psychoacoustics is such a significant factor that ultimately if YOU determine a tweak to make a system sound better then it DOES sound better.

Listening to music is highly subjective and does not play well with the scientific method and reductist thinking at all times.

I fully acknowledge the field of acoustic engineering.
 
3t3P said:
Psychoacoustics is such a significant factor that ultimately if YOU determine a tweak to make a system sound better then it DOES sound better.
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So if i picked up a rock and told you it increased the width of the soundstage from my speakers, just by holding it, 1) Am I right if I believe it and 2) would you believe me?

I'm going to start selling audio rocks!.
 
james.miller said:
So if i picked up a rock and told you it increased the width of the soundstage from my speakers, just by holding it, 1) Am I right if I believe it and 2) would you believe me?

I'm going to start selling audio rocks!.
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sea shells mate one per speaker your sound will never be as crisp and fresh as the ocean without them.

you can't collect your own though my team of specialists scours the worlds most remote beaches to find the absolute best amplification acoustic shells the world has to offer

why not also add an audio cleaning bonsai tree whilst your at it

we also offer a range of acoustically treated mirror tiles to increase the depth and precision of your audio
 
arknor said:
sea shells mate one per speaker your sound will never be as crisp and fresh as the ocean without them.

you can't collect your own though my team of specialists scours the worlds most remote beaches to find the absolute best amplification acoustic shells the world has to offer

why not also add an audio cleaning bonsai tree whilst your at it

we also offer a range of acoustically treated mirror tiles to increase the depth and precision of your audio
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Do you happen to have a link to the mirror tiles? I'm beginning to think my DBrand FLAC Enhanced Speaker Wraps are wearing off.
 
arknor said:
sea shells mate one per speaker your sound will never be as crisp and fresh as the ocean without them.

you can't collect your own though my team of specialists scours the worlds most remote beaches to find the absolute best amplification acoustic shells the world has to offer

why not also add an audio cleaning bonsai tree whilst your at it

we also offer a range of acoustically treated mirror tiles to increase the depth and precision of your audio
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They will work because we believe!
 
Kobi said:
Do you happen to have a link to the mirror tiles? I'm beginning to think my DBrand FLAC Enhanced Speaker Wraps are wearing off.
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they look identical to the ones available from IKEA but ours are treated with a special layer similar to the coating applied to stealth aircraft that absorb the radar waves.
the special dark matter coating traps and absorb the bad sounds along with any echos or imperfections in the acoustics of your room, allowing only the perfect representation of the audio to be reflected


far superior to any sound proofing materials you may already have and only 3x as expensive.
 
Once again this type of 'discussion' degenerates in pettiness. Ho hum.

Dr Ignaz Semmelweis may not be household name, but the Hungarian doctor appears to be one of the first on record to suggest that antiseptic handwashing saves lives. He made these claims while working in an Austrian hospital around 1850 (that's about 10 minutes before the clapping starts). Although he had some success with tests, the idea flew in the face of conventional medical wisdom. The scientific methods of the time couldn't verify his theories because the technology and knowledge didn't exist, and it looks as if the medical establishment wasn't prepared to accept new thinking. The authorities decided to shut him up by sectioning him against his will. He was regularly beaten in the asylum, and he died two weeks after passing through its doors.

Sometimes the right answer is "I don't know".

History is littered with examples of people pioneering new ideas that were rejected at the time. Not every one of them turned out to be an Edward Jenner, Robert Stevenson, Louis Pasteur or Ignaz Semmelweis. There were still plenty of charlatans peddling hair tonic made from pee, fire ash and raw eggs. There would have also been people who were perhaps partly on the right track but lacked the ability to develop and refine their ideas. Egg protein and the enzymes is now considered good for damaged hair.

Within the Hi-Fi industry we've seen 'quack' ideas become mainstream. Speaker stands, for example: There was a time when the idea of buying something specially made to put speakers upon was considered a frivolous waste of money. Same with equipment stands. Same with spikes.
 
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lucid said:
Once again this type of 'discussion' degenerates in pettiness. Ho hum.

Dr Ignaz Semmelweis may not be household name, but the Hungarian doctor appears to be one of the first on record to suggest that antiseptic handwashing saves lives. He made these claims while working in an Austrian hospital around 1850 (that's about 10 minutes before the clapping starts). Although he had some success with tests, the idea flew in the face of conventional medical wisdom. The scientific methods of the time couldn't verify his theories because the technology and knowledge didn't exist, and it looks as if the medical establishment wasn't prepared to accept new thinking. The authorities decided to shut him up by sectioning him against his will. He was regularly beaten in the asylum, and he died two weeks after passing through its doors.

Sometimes the right answer is "I don't know".

History is littered with examples of people pioneering new ideas that were rejected at the time. Not every one of them turned out to be an Edward Jenner, Robert Stevenson, Louis Pasteur or Ignaz Semmelweis. There were still plenty of charlatans peddling hair tonic made from ****, fire ash and raw eggs. There would have also been people who were perhaps partly on the right track but lacked the ability to develop and refine their ideas. Egg protein and the enzymes is now considered good for damaged hair.

Within the Hi-Fi industry we've seen 'quack' ideas become mainstream. Speaker stands, for example: There was a time when the idea of buying something specially made to put speakers upon was considered a frivolous waste of money. Same with equipment stands. Same with spikes.
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I am sure that the super fuse will become mainstream very soon then.
 
gailjon said:
I am sure that the super fuse will become mainstream very soon then.
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Setting aside the sarcastic tone of your reply for a moment, honestly, who knows. Somehow I doubt it personally, but that's only my opinion.

The problem with the superfuse as far as I'm concerned is the rating. There's very little in a Hi-Fi rack that needs up to 13A of current flow. That's the equivalent of 3000 Watts for a 230V supply. Even a 3A fuse will pass enough current for a 700W device.

Having said that, we don't rely on fuses much any more to protect wiring from over-current supply. If there's a problem, the fuse board MCB and then the RCD will kick in, presuming of course that the fuse board has those rather than cartridge or rewireable fuses. And therein lies the problem. To make 13A the standard for the plug top of any device would mean guaranteeing that every premises where a product could possibly be used is fitted with a fuse board that has RCDs and an MCB, and that's not going to happen any time soon.
 
lucid said:
Once again this type of 'discussion' degenerates in pettiness. Ho hum.
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if he could actually see the bacteria at the time then sure it would be comparable.

the problem is we can actually scientifically test whether something makes a difference to your sound or not.

i don't get the superfuse anyway, what about all the resistors and whatever else in your gear? do you replace those with "superreistors" too
 
str!xt said:
XLR cables, interconnects, speaker cable, even speaker jumper cables can dramatically change the sound of your hifi. Mains cables? Yup, they change the sound as well.
Tube amps, class AB and D all sound totally different.
The same goes for dacs and CD players.
Does playing a cd sound different to streaming? 100% yes. You don’t need special hearing to notice the difference in sound in any of the above. It can be quite substantial.
I added a pair of chord signature jumper cables to my speakers ( which shall name nameless for the moment) . I forgot that I had them, but I thought I’d try them.
The whole soundstage collapsed. The mids ended up behind the plane of the speakers and the vocals became thin and harsh. Weird that it’s just copper with shielding.
But it is a link in the chain. Change one link and it can ruin or transform your sound.

The way of thinking at the moment is to eek out every single ounce of sound, warts and all. This can be seen with silver plated copper cables can sound quite thin and analytical. Speakers that come across as fast sounding, clinical are what some are after . Raidho being an example with their diamond coated drivers.

snake oil... yup. Seen it in action , first hand. naim fanboys shaking their fricking speaker cables to align the electrons or some crap like that. Bamboo speaker cable supports to keep the cable of the floor....
A set of isolation spikes for your speakers for £10k . Watched the guy hand his card over. Nordost Odin speaker cable for £24k, not for me thanks.

I tried the streaming route five years ago. I didn’t realise how much of a mine field it was system matching. Went deep down the rabbit hole and ended up selling everything bar my tube amp, which is still in my system.
Now I’m back to good old cd’s and I love it. I have built up my latest system over a Couple of years, trying out low price stuff to fairly expensive to get a feel I guess as to what this whole hifi hobby/passion is about. .
To each their own.
Regards
N

side note. I only ever buy second hand. I’m not that stupid.....
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How can mains cables change anything? Assuming you're not getting a lot of electrical noise.
 
I guess for centuries when people don't understand something they poke fun at it and mock..... so nothing has changed then.
"You don't know what you don't know" .......

iamtheoneneo said:
I honestly dont think this forum can talk about absurd purchases that make no sense.

Half the people here are running 2080s to play CSGO and minecraft
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At last someone gets my point...... :D

arknor said:
i don't get the superfuse anyway, what about all the resistors and whatever else in your gear? do you replace those with "superreistors" too
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Well yes actually, swapping the capacitors, resistors and inducts in speakers crossovers for high grade ones makes a sizeable improvement, I don't mean change the values, just better grade of the same value.

A while back I got talking to designed/engineer/inventor of amplifiers and was the originator of a well known brand of cable. (Before they ripped him off and he left, later they spun off a load of versions that probably did nothing more).
He was actually repairing my old amp he use to make and sold (very well) back in the 80's, we got chatting on several occasions. Some of the stories of what he had invented and researched was mind blowing, sounded more Sci-Fi at time.
Stuff he had done for NASA, bouncing signals off the moon from the other side of the world. Medical detection equipment that was so sensitive it could detect a bruise before it formed and which it could help cure some conditions. It got squashed as it would have denied large medical companies research money and drug sales. The guy is a genius, he knew and worked with Steven Hawkins on some things as well.

So if he thinks there is something to be gained by a designing speaker and interconnect cables I'm prepared to believe there can be something to it. That doesn't mean all brands work, far from it, but to dismiss and mock maybe saying more about the finger pointer than the product being mocked.

Best to keep an open mind and find some one cleverer to learn from.
 
theone8181 said:
How can mains cables change anything? Assuming you're not getting a lot of electrical noise.
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just remove the fuse and hardwire it sure to be an improvement and you don't need to spent 25quid.

just make sure its plugged in to an adapter that has it's own fuse!!! (yea I get it don't worry)

probably be better off changing all the RCD switches in your electric box tbh .
they can deteriorate and start tripping from kettles or washing machines that are fine

actually whilst I'm here anyone want to buy some Super RCD switches? 500quid
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also only ever plug your hifi gear in to the plug closest to your electrical box.

less distance for the electricity to flow and costs nothing ;) (would actually believe this could make a difference tbh)


the longer the wire the more resistance no?
 
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