Is Vegetarianism logically inconsistent?

Lupine Lacuna said:
Not one person has really addressed my question.

I am not interested here in the pros and cons of meat eating (though I highly encourage viewing the film 'Earthlings' which is available on their website online, and also a trailer), my question is instead to vegetarians who chose not to eat meat because they believe you should not kill animals, and to ask, why do you eat eggs and diary (since both involve killing).
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You eat farmed crops, which also involves killing animals both directly (especially during harvesting) and indirectly by depriving them of food and habitat.

If you really want to avoid killing animals completely, you'd have to eat only what could be foraged. Which is impossible for humans to do under any circumstances, because a human can't forage a wide enough variety of plant material to meet all their nutritional needs.

Even if you could do it, which you can't, you would still need to either take B12 as a supplement or eat the right kind of faeces (faeces from some animals contains B12 that humans can use). The supplement is made in tanks as a waste product of bacteria - are you OK farming them? Bacteria could be classed as animals. It's a bit of a stretch, but they're alive and they're not plants. I'm assuming you wouldn't eat the faeces because that's farming the animal.

B12 deficiency takes a while, but it's very bad news. It will blight your life and possibly end it. The cliche of the pale, listless, unhealthy, depressed vegan exists for a reason. Look up the symptoms of B12 deficiency.
 
Tissue scientists can't make anything tastier than mincemeat at the moment, if they could grow a steak I'd be on it, and so would a lot of other people I'd imagine, but that's just a flight of fancy, currently...

Ultimate wet-dream for one vegan:
http://www.hedweb.com
 
Flibster said:
There are people, strange people... who give pets vegetarians and even vegan meals as the people themselves are vegetarian or vegan and want no animal products at all in their house.

I did say they were strange people.
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There are, and some animals can survive on a vegetarian diet if the human who forces it on them is knowledgable and careful. Dogs, for example. I suspect that's why the person you're replying to picked cats as an example - cats cannot survive on a vegetarian diet. They are so strongly physically adapted to being carnivorous that they will die (slowly, painfully and pitifully) on a vegetarian diet.

People who won't allow their pets a suitable diet for that type of animal shouldn't have one as a pet. I can understand a person being a vegan...but it makes no sense at all for a vegan to keep a carnivore as a pet unless they're doing so deliberately to abuse the animal as a punishment for being a carnivore. That would be sick, but it would make sense.
 
The most important thing for myself is that I don't allow others to impose their food related views / opinions on me and likewise, I respect others views and beliefs / opinions, allowing them to make their own choices.

Myself, I am a meat eater...just about, and only some of the time (it's not a food group that I particularly am overly keen on). I will only buy organic, free range / grass fed meat / dairy - and grade 5 organic or above, (grade 6 is not as easy to come by). These days I very rarely eat meat if at all when dining in a restaurant, simply because I don't know how the animal has been treated / quality of the meat etc.

I go through periods when I eat a vegetarian diet, and even occasionally vegan / raw foods. I find the mix of my ethics, feelings etc / food science + nutrition don't often meet in a warm embrace in the middle.
 
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neocon said:
where do you draw the line, because a plant is alive and so are bacteria and viruses?
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some people only eat fruit/veg/plant products that can be harvested without killing the plant and filter (then return the filtrate) thier water to prevent them killing any microscopic life forms too.
 
Lupine Lacuna said:
I am a vegan, for a very simple reason.

1. Animals are not property and we have no right to subordinate and dominate for our own ends.

Therefore, I refuse to eat eggs and dairy since the latter involves life long enslavement and the former involves killing every male chick (approx half of all chicks).

Therefore I dont see how anyone can be a vegetarian for ethical reasons.

I'm interested to see how all your vegetarians out there view it, why are you a vegetarian?

Thanks
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but what about killing plantlife?

i only eat meat because i feel it's inhumane to eat and kill plants that give us oxygen, medicine, etc... also by eating a lot of burgers I am reducing the amount of herbivores and further helping plants against their natural predators. which imo makes you a bigger monster than I

BTW aren't pets considered property?
 
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Angilion said:
People who won't allow their pets a suitable diet for that type of animal shouldn't have one as a pet.
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Agreed, but people do do it, which is rather worrying and pretty stupid.

It's the same with having a kid and bringing it up as a vegetarian/vegan. I know I certainly wouldn't, once they're old enough to make their own choice then they can decide if they want to be one. Nothing should be forced on anyone.
 
Justin said:
Agreed, but people do do it, which is rather worrying and pretty stupid.

It's the same with having a kid and bringing it up as a vegetarian/vegan. I know I certainly wouldn't, once they're old enough to make their own choice then they can decide if they want to be one. Nothing should be forced on anyone.
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But parents largely force their dietary choices on their children anyway.

If you eat a lot of burgers, you're probably going to end up feeding your kids burgers, because its easier to buy and cook several portions of the same meal, than it is to buy something completely different, for the sake of allowing your child a broader palate.

Why would it not be ok to do the alternative to what you suggest, and raise your child a vegan/veggie, but allow them to make their own choice once they're old enough?
 
If we didn't eat animals, other animals would just eat them for us. Also, I hate it when people forget that humans are animals as well.
 
[TW]Fox;17768456 said:
And why do you like the taste? Because thats how your body works. The basic taste of meat is good - thats to encourage you to eat it. We'd never have continued eating it if it tasted bad.
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I like drinking alcohol. Doesn’t mean it's good for me or necessary for survival.

In modern times a vegetarian diet is perfectly adequate for survival and healthier than eating meat.
 
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