ISIL, ISIS, Daesh discussion thread.

scorza said:
I think you'll find it'll be more difficult than you imagine, and there'll be a hell of a cost in British troop's lives. Why is it only the West who are ever held responsible for their actions? What about Saudi Arabia exporting Wahabism around the world, what about all the Muslim countries who let thousands of their citizens go to Iraq for jihad against America?
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Why is it the wests problem?

Because we went in and destroyed the Iraq military and killed sadam paving the way for a weak government to get toppled by these scum.

Because we went in a destroyed the Libyan military and killed gadafi, now Libya has 2 factions of 'government' battling to take control meanwhile Isis setup in Libya.

Because we armed the Rebels battling Assad, most of which were the people that are now fighting for isis.

We never had a problem 'risking our peoples lives' on these stupid political decisions.

The Middle East has a lot to answer for, you are correct and countries like Saudi should play a bigger part, but fact is, it is 100% our fault that this situation is happening right now.

I appreciate it wouldn't be easy to eradicate them fully but the wests military power could put an end to this in a fortnight if they wanted to.
 
OldCoals said:
Do you understand what Jihad is?
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Your last cotton thread has gone. I don't care what the Islamic scum call anything. I didn't bring Jihad up YOU did.

They dealt with a religious nut job that wanted to take over the world last time.

We just do the same...job done.
What part of "we all get together and destroy the scum" don't you understand?
 
deuse said:
The Islamic Scum are selling Sunni women on the streets now :(
Why are our governments just standing by?
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Which government? We destroyed the most efficient one that controlled most of ISISs current territory, which caused much of this problem in the first place.

(Saddam, American Occupation, Sunni Rebellion that turned into ISIS)

EDIT: Seems like you agree with me. :) (on this at least)
 
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Lima said:
Why is it the wests problem?

Because we went in and destroyed the Iraq military and killed sadam paving the way for a weak government to get toppled by these scum.

Because we went in a destroyed the Libyan military and killed gadafi, now Libya has 2 factions of 'government' battling to take control meanwhile Isis setup in Libya.

Because we armed the Rebels battling Assad, most of which were the people that are now fighting for isis.

We never had a problem 'risking our peoples lives' on these stupid political decisions.

The Middle East has a lot to answer for, you are correct and countries like Saudi should play a bigger part, but fact is, it is 100% our fault that this situation is happening right now.

I appreciate it wouldn't be easy to eradicate them fully but the wests military power could put an end to this in a fortnight if they wanted to.
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So again neither Saddam nor Gaddafi have any responsibility for their fates - despite Saddam invading Kuwait (here's a hint; attacking a US ally = not a good idea) and gassing the Kurds, and Gaddafi assisting the Pan Am/Lockerbie bombing and supporting the IRA for decades.

I dispute that we armed the Syrian rebels - can you provide some evidence to back up that assertion?

At the end of the day, the middle east is a mental place - whatever the west does or doesn't do it's up to the people who live there to sort out their mess. We can't tolerate the west being damned if it does, and damned if it doesn't. I might not agree with the invasion of Iraq but the allies have left it with a government and the instruments of state (police, civil service, army etc) - what they make of it is up to them.
 
OldCoals said:
But Jihad is and IS and fighting Jihad.
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no jihad is a war not an idea.

your whole point was you cant kill an idea with a bullet but jihad is just a war, bullets have always proved effective at winning wars.


or are you going to go with "every Muslim wants a jihad" ?
 
I think the problem in an increased bombing/ground troops campaign would be that there is no "army" to fight against like there was in WW2, but rather a terrorist group living amongst a country. Forget snazzy uniforms like the Germans had making them easy targets, these rats would disappear as soon was boots touched the ground and blend into villages of innocents.

The west cannot simply bomb the entire country as that would make them the terrorists.

Isis have no honor and as such would not be a traditional foe to fight making it extremely difficult in having to weed them out first.

I also read a very long article linked to me about what Isis really want and long story short, itmsounds like some terrible LSD induced B movie where they seem to be like a bad case of thrush which flares up every 200 years hell bent on some sort of prophesied apocalypse which ends with them actually getting wiped out this time by the armies of Rome.

The Western idea is to prevent it spreading and letting it die out on its own which includes stopping people leaving for Syria as they would be the parents of the next spawn.

Either way, its a very stupid and dangerous game to play.
 
Tefal said:
no jihad is a war not an idea.

your whole point was you cant kill an idea with a bullet but jihad is just a war, bullets have always proved effective at winning wars.


or are you going to go with "every Muslim wants a jihad" ?
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But is is based upon Islamic beliefs.
 
scorza said:
So again neither Saddam nor Gaddafi have any responsibility for their fates - despite Saddam invading Kuwait (here's a hint; attacking a US ally = not a good idea) and gassing the Kurds, and Gaddafi assisting the Pan Am/Lockerbie bombing and supporting the IRA for decades.

I dispute that we armed the Syrian rebels - can you provide some evidence to back up that assertion?

I might not agree with the invasion of Iraq but the allies have left it with a government and the instruments of state (police, civil service, army etc) - what they make of it is up to them.
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None of the reasons you listed above have anything to do with the reasons why we went to war/ bombed Iraq and Libya. We went to war and risked our people's lives over a total utter lie about WMDs which was fabricated off of George bush and tony blairs greed. The things you mention about the dictators are true and brutal, but I know if I had a choice over those dictators being back in place or having IS run amuck I choose the dictators any day.

As for arming Syrian Rebels, I found a link from independent stating UK has provided £8m in non lethal military equipment. I just googled west arming Syrian Rebels and it was top link. Maybe we haven't provided weapons as such, I'm not sure.

As for your last paragraph, we clearly didn't leave them in a very good state if a bunch of modern cavemen with AKs can take control.

I tend to agree with a lot of what you're saying, but denying the west is the main catalyst in all this IS stuff is incredibly naive.
 
Lima said:
None of the reasons you listed above have anything to do with the reasons why we went to war/ bombed Iraq and Libya. We went to war and risked our people's lives over a total utter lie about WMDs which was fabricated off of George bush and tony blairs greed. The things you mention about the dictators are true and brutal, but I know if I had a choice over those dictators being back in place or having IS run amuck I choose the dictators any day.

As for arming Syrian Rebels, I found a link from independent stating UK has provided £8m in non lethal military equipment. I just googled west arming Syrian Rebels and it was top link. Maybe we haven't provided weapons as such, I'm not sure.
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We have to stop blaming ourselves for the state the middle-east is in - yes our history isn't great but then in a conflict with two bad guys and you have to side with one, you're never going to look good.

Look at it another way, if our economy was suffering because the US had imposed sanctions on us, what would our government's reaction be? Try to get the sanctions removed or instigate crowds to burn the US flag while shouting "Death to America!"?

Lima said:
As for your last paragraph, we clearly didn't leave them in a very good state if a bunch of modern cavemen with AKs can take control.
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That's exactly what I mean - it's not our fault that the Iraqi army's ranks comprise almost exclusively of Shia Muslims, who decided to alienate the local population in Sunni areas, who then ran from the Islamic State because they knew the population would support the opposition. That screw up is made in Baghdad, nothing to do with the West. FYI the US-trained "golden brigade" of the Iraqi army have been fighting very fiercely with Islamic State and made some progress at recapturing parts of their country.
 
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