ISIL, ISIS, Daesh discussion thread.

Lima said:
Tefal your 2 quotes don't highlight contradiction. What I've been trying to get at is that whilst I don't fundamentally agree with how these dictators go about their business, I'd much rather they were still in place than have what is basically a huge cult running a muck across several countries.
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no you said the place NEEDED a dictator not that you would rather they had one.
 
Lima said:
I tend to agree to an extent. At the time the second Iraq war started, I was very much of the opinion it was a good thing. I didn't care if the WMD thing was a lie as I thought it would be good to get rid of brutal leaders. Thing is, years later and some hindsight has made me change my opinion on the subject. I would still support the war if we concluded it properly but as it stands we pulled troops out too early and it's become a huge mess. I think we should finish what we started.

Tefal your 2 quotes don't highlight contradiction. What I've been trying to get at is that whilst I don't fundamentally agree with how these dictators go about their business, I'd much rather they were still in place than have what is basically a huge cult running a muck across several countries.
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Completely agree, a plan should be seen right through to the end. The problem is it's hard to delineate what the plan actually entailed. Can we even condur up a grand master plan for so many people over such a vast area, and even if we did, how can it even be put into effect.

I think we had the right intentions; remove the dictator and give the power to the people to decide. What was not envisaged was that the power vacuum would lead to so much infighting that it resulted in the most extremist element gaining a huge foothold over the region. Unfortunately the culture isn't like others, it is deep routed with triablism and a desperation so strong in people that they will follow their religious belief to the absolute. I think those extremist leadership elements have preyed on those desperate minds and exploited those religious beliefs to control people to gain power, money and influence.
 
ubersonic said:
OldCoals said:
Linking to an offshoot of the BNP, wow.
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Linking to a news article, and linking multiple sources for a more accurate assessment.

But don't let that stop your "ermagawd tis not teh BBC!!" dismissal, I'll wait until more media outlets start covering it then try and reintroduce the information >.>
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Good news, the UK media have finally caught up, so I guess you can join in the discussion :p

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...ongside-president-assads-forces-10483842.html

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34131573
 
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ubersonic said:
Good news, the UK media have finally caught up, so I guess you can join in the discussion :p

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...ongside-president-assads-forces-10483842.html

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34131573
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Given the poor fighting capability of the Russian armed forces I wouldn't expect too much from them. They're probably just digging in defensive positions to stop the Islamic State from gaining strategic locations from which they can launch attacks on the Russian naval base at Tartus. Don't expect the Syrian civil war to be over any time soon - for that you'd need a US-led intervention which just ain't gonna happen.
 
If we (the infidels) sort this out there will be collateral, and that means the rest of the Muslim world will kick-off and we’ll get the blow-back, including Muslims in the UK getting remotely detonated. You’d think the rest of the Muslim world would be the first to tackle this giant Muslim meat-grinder in Iraq/Syria, but they seem utterly indifferent as long as it’s Muslim on Muslim violence.

The west needs to just stay the **** out of Muslim affairs, as even trying to help is more trouble than it’s worth. The road to hell is paved with good intentions, and we really need to get off that road now.
 
Tefal said:
Lima said:
If you opened your eyes and read my posts, you would see I have not for one minute said 'the west is the reason the Middle East is ****
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Lima said:
fact is, it is 100% our fault that this situation is happening right now.
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Nope, you see what you are doing is taking two quotes out of context and trying to make it appear as if he is saying something he isn't.

The west is not the reason the middle east is ****, however the situation happening right now is the west's fault, he isn't contradicting himself because the two aren't exclusive.

In fact his unedited quote actually stresses that point:

Lima said:
If you opened your eyes and read my posts, you would see I have not for one minute said 'the west is the reason the Middle East is ****' What I have said over and over is that the wests meddling is the catalyst that had caused the rise of Isis at this moment in time.
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ubersonic said:
Nope, you see what you are doing is taking two quotes out of context and trying to make it appear as if he is saying something he isn't.

The west is not the reason the middle east is ****, however the situation happening right now is the west's fault, he isn't contradicting himself because the two aren't exclusive.

In fact his unedited quote actually stresses that point:
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well they are a catalyst is not the cause its simply a facilitator


you cannot be 100% at fault and only a catalyst
 
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