ISIL, ISIS, Daesh discussion thread.

[scorza]

For supporting the assad regime?

Its a total cluster#### now.

Not only that, if Russia is basically acting as the Assad regime's air force then they'll be actively supporting the Islamic State, who are key to Assad's strategy for winning this war.

The thing I don't get though is why the US even bothered talking to Russia at the UN this week, there's the old mantra "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me". Anything the Russian government say has zero credibility before the events of this week because of Ukraine, and they should have been treated accordingly - no handshakes, even frosty ones.

 

[CircleFaust]

Not only that, if Russia is basically acting as the Assad regime's air force then they'll be actively supporting the Islamic State, who are key to Assad's strategy for winning this war.

The thing I don't get though is why the US even bothered talking to Russia at the UN this week, there's the old mantra "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me". Anything the Russian government say has zero credibility before the events of this week because of Ukraine, and they should have been treated accordingly - no handshakes, even frosty ones.

ah never gets old that saying

 

[gettothechopper]

As much as I don't think Assad has any legitimacy left - I think we had our chance and failed to do enough to change the overall situation or help who we wanted to help

At least this morning it sounds like Rus + West are going to deconflict strikes so thats an improvement on yesterday

 

[glenimp617]

Well done Russia

America is only angry as they want to police the world

 

[scorza]

As much as I don't think Assad has any legitimacy left - I think we had our chance and failed to do enough to change the overall situation or help who we wanted to help

At least this morning it sounds like Rus + West are going to deconflict strikes so thats an improvement on yesterday

Trouble is Russia has proved itself to be untrustworthy, so if they say they are definitely not going to bomb a particular area, what value is that to the Americans. They'd be very foolish to believe them, on the other hand they can't appear to be running scared of Russia so can't withdraw whatever assets there are in that area. If I was the US I'd sending more military assets to the area to ratchet the pressure on Russia - watch everything they do and release evidence of every mistake they make. Russia has made hay with the US/UK folly of the Iraq invasion, it's time to turn the tables on them.

 

[RoboCod]

Well done Russia

America is only angry as they want to police the world

America isn't angry.

 

[Errol]

I'm all for Russia taking out rebels.

Agree completely.

Hopefully Russia can crush the rebels and help Government forces to push out. ISIS can then be put to the sword, with the Syrian army using Russian air support.

Worth noting that Russia is the only country operating lawfully in Syria. They have been invited to act by the Syrian government. All other parties - USA, France etc - have been specifically denied the right to access Syrian airspace. Any bombing by the USA and the other Western fools is a clear breach of international law and effectively amounts to waging war against another State.

 

[Danthus]

America and Britain want regime change in Syria.

That always works well.

 

[ak22]

Well done Russia

America is only angry as they want to police the world

America can't police **** they only cause more instability ISIL is perfect example, they don't want peace in the middle east only control.

 

[scorza]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ng-to-kill-inside-syrias-death-machine-caesar

Worth a read especially if you think Assad is a beacon of hope and humanity in Syria. It seems that the only difference between Assad and the Islamic State is that IS upload videos of their barbarous acts to the internet.

 

[glenimp617]

one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter

the enemy of your enemy is your friend

you should not believe everything you read in the media

Think above the above sayings, then really think about what has happened over the last 20 years

 

[aardvark]

i'm no fan of putin or assad but do i really believe the US or UK? i don't - they have lied about the middle east for misguided political reasons too many times.

i applaud russia for attacking islamic rebels, be it IS or otherwise - there is no debate about how evil those people are.

 

[FoxEye]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ng-to-kill-inside-syrias-death-machine-caesar

Worth a read especially if you think Assad is a beacon of hope and humanity in Syria. It seems that the only difference between Assad and the Islamic State is that IS upload videos of their barbarous acts to the internet.

Imagine that this country was divided between factions who fiercely hated each other and wanted each other dead (you might not need to imagine this in the future).

People who absolutely believed that God wanted them to killed the other side.

You think everyone would abide by the rules of war?

You think Assad has total control over everything that happens? I'd be very surprised if he does.

It's a fight to the death and a fight for survival.

After WWII in all the countries surrounding Germany where ethnic Germans were found, they were tortured killed by local people. The governments in these places watched it happen, but would have been powerless to stop it anyhow.

Deap-seated ethnic and religious hatred is not something we in this country have to deal with - yet. But the left sure are intent on changing that as fast as possible.

Assad and his secular government is fighting a brutal war against brutal religious nutcases. I won't shed a tear for islamic terrorists being killed. Sorry.

 

[ubersonic]

The USA wants to effect regime change in Syria, and destroy ISIS/ISIL (which was created by the USA effecting regime change in Iraq/Libya) Have they learned nothing?

Oh wait, they are also getting angsty about Russia backing up the Syrian government against the rebels groups the USA are backing (which includes Al-Qaeda), similar to how Russia backed up Afghanistan's government in the 1980's against US backed islamic extremists (which later became Al-Qaeda/Taliban), that eventually defeated Russia before turning on the USA.

Yes, yes they have learned nothing...

 

[RoboCod]

All other parties - USA, France etc - have been specifically denied the right to access Syrian airspace. Any bombing by the USA and the other Western fools is a clear breach of international law and effectively amounts to waging war against another State.

This isn't true either.

 

[RoboCod]

The USA wants to effect regime change in Syria, and destroy ISIS/ISIL (which was created by the USA effecting regime change in Iraq/Libya) Have they learned nothing?

Oh wait, they are also getting angsty about Russia backing up the Syrian government against the rebels groups the USA are backing (which includes Al-Qaeda), similar to how Russia backed up Afghanistan's government in the 1980's against US backed islamic extremists (which later became Al-Qaeda/Taliban), that eventually defeated Russia before turning on the USA.

Yes, yes they have learned nothing...

The USA are getting angsty about Russia backing the Syrian government? Please do divulge more!

 

[ubersonic]

This isn't true either.

Actually it is, Russia and Iran are the only countries bombing Syrian land and flying in Syrian airspace with the permission of Syria. All other countries are doing so in breach of international law.

After Obama announced he was going to start bombing Syrian targets Russia and Syria released statements that U.S intervention against ISIL in Syria "without the consent of the legitimate government", "in the absence of a UN Security Council decision, would be an act of aggression, a gross violation of international law" and "any action of any kind without the consent of the Syrian government would be an attack on Syria".

 

[FoxEye]

The USA are getting angsty about Russia backing the Syrian government? Please do divulge more!

Well they seem pretty upset. They accused Russia of prolonging the war by intervening on Assad's side. They don't want Russia to attack non-ISIS targets who are also opposed to Assad.

At least that's what they're saying in public. Whether their real intentions match their public statements is another matter.

 

[scorza]

Imagine that this country was divided between factions who fiercely hated each other and wanted each other dead (you might not need to imagine this in the future).

People who absolutely believed that God wanted them to killed the other side.

You think everyone would abide by the rules of war?

You think Assad has total control over everything that happens? I'd be very surprised if he does.

It's a fight to the death and a fight for survival.

After WWII in all the countries surrounding Germany where ethnic Germans were found, they were tortured killed by local people. The governments in these places watched it happen, but would have been powerless to stop it anyhow.

Deap-seated ethnic and religious hatred is not something we in this country have to deal with - yet. But the left sure are intent on changing that as fast as possible.

Assad and his secular government is fighting a brutal war against brutal religious nutcases. I won't shed a tear for islamic terrorists being killed. Sorry.

It's amazing how everyone who is against Assad is now an Islamic terrorist - you wonder how anyone ever managed to visit Syria in the past. Even if I accepted that they all were terrorists it doesn't explain why Assad has given so much support to Islamic State and is continuing to do so. He and now Russia are basically acting as Islamic State's airforce.

These sorts of human rights atrocities - and lets be clear, they are atrocities and not mere abuses - only serve to strengthen the hand of Islamic State in the long run.

 

[RoboCod]

Actually it is, Russia and Iran are the only countries bombing Syrian land and flying in Syrian airspace with the permission of Syria. All other countries are doing so in breach of international law.

After Obama announced he was going to start bombing Syrian targets Russia and Syria released statements that U.S intervention against ISIL in Syria "without the consent of the legitimate government", "in the absence of a UN Security Council decision, would be an act of aggression, a gross violation of international law" and "any action of any kind without the consent of the Syrian government would be an attack on Syria".

Ok I'll bite. Whilst not strictly legal, the strikes are legitimate and justified. The strikes have been happening for the best part of a year, the Russians have only just turned up and doing the same thing – bombing positions in Syria. So whilst you may bleat on with your pro-Russian/anti-West personal campaign (that no one outside of your world cares about) the point of legality is pretty much moot. In fact it’s absolutely ludicrous that you are going to attempt to bring up morality when the people the US are bombing are the people decapitating innocents on TV in the name of a god.

Other peoples so called political agenda…I despair.