ISIL, ISIS, Daesh discussion thread.

Also Saudi Arabia are funding the more conservative leaning groups , which include ISIS.

why? The same reason they are systematically destroying Islamic history in yemen - they want THEIR version of islam to be the only 1.
 
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Tefal said:
Yeah again notice the huge highly armed groups destroying the country now.

They didnt just get the guns over night and they srent the same people protesting peacefully
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Bit different between the UK where people don't tend to be significantly armed as part of day to day life and some parts of the ME where tribes, etc. are routinely heavily armed. Not to mention stuff like extremist groups capitalising on the situation who weren't necessarily part of the original dissent.
 
Skunkworks said:
Comparing the UK to Syria in that way was retarded. Stop being obtuse.
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Wrong. Humane values and morals are the same regardless of the country. They don't just simply dissolve because you're in a different one, to say otherwise is what is obtuse. You can't have it both ways... Syria, hailed as an advanced, cosmopolitan, utopian place in this thread. Yet can't allow peaceful protest and must massacre those who oppose the actions and views of their government... That is a retarded perspective.
 
Cultures are not the same. As we’ve witnessed several times now, countries like Syria, Iraq and Libya are constantly teetering on the edge of widespread sectarian violence just waiting for an opportunity, the UK is not.

Stop being obtuse.
 
Pathetic.

The UK once had continued civil unrest, infighting, revolt, it progressed. It's nothing to do with the cultures, we're just at different times in development of our countries.

I'm amazed how pro-dictatorship some of our posters are. Pretty sad really.
 
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The sectarian violence is caused by dictatorships only benefiting the group in charge - when you have no democratic right to complain or vote you get groups of people who feel like the only way left is violence

In fact the conflict we are talking about people who peacefully protested and got stamped on by Assad - the violence and chaos is the result of that, not the cause
Yes you can blame the other countries for turning it into a proxy war too
 
The issue regarding violence in Muslim countries and violence can really come down to interpretation of the Qur'an. Note , extremist groups will cherry pick verses and passages to justify their actions , but , they are usually taken out of context.

For example - the verse 9.5 of `the verse of swords` ;

When the inviolable months have passed away, kill the
polytheists wherever you find them. Seize them, besiege
them, and wait for them at every place of observation. If
they repent, observe prayer, and pay the obligatory alms
then let them go their way. Allah is forgiving, merciful.

This passage is in regards to when the Muslims were pushed out of mecca by those `not of the book` , pagans or those who worship false god or gods (idolaters)

skip to 2015 and ISIS used that passage (and others) to justify killing of the Yazidi and Sufi in Iraq, even though they also worship 1 god.

So where does the miss-interpretation come from? like in English , Arabic words can have different meanings;

If I ask you `what is a shark` - you will likely say `its an ocean going fish` , but it can also mean someone who lends you money at high interest rates , or someone who hustles you at cards or pool , or even a class of yacht.

The same in Islam , the language used is `Classic Arabic` which could broadly be compared to Shakespearean English in style and dialects , MSA or Modern Standard Arabic is today`s language spoken (broadly comparable to southern English) , then throw in broader dialects (south Yemen woman wouldn't understand an Egyptian - which is like asking a Glaswegian to chat with a cockney) , and each have their own interpretation of the words.
 
Harlequin said:
The issue regarding violence in Muslim countries and violence can really come down to interpretation of the Qur'an. Note , extremist groups will cherry pick verses and passages to justify their actions , but , they are usually taken out of context.

For example - the verse 9.5 of `the verse of swords` ;

When the inviolable months have passed away, kill the
polytheists wherever you find them. Seize them, besiege
them, and wait for them at every place of observation. If
they repent, observe prayer, and pay the obligatory alms
then let them go their way. Allah is forgiving, merciful.

This passage is in regards to when the Muslims were pushed out of mecca by those `not of the book` , pagans or those who worship false god or gods (idolaters)

skip to 2015 and ISIS used that passage (and others) to justify killing of the Yazidi and Sufi in Iraq, even though they also worship 1 god.

So where does the miss-interpretation come from? like in English , Arabic words can have different meanings;

If I ask you `what is a shark` - you will likely say `its an ocean going fish` , but it can also mean someone who lends you money at high interest rates , or someone who hustles you at cards or pool , or even a class of yacht.

The same in Islam , the language used is `Classic Arabic` which could broadly be compared to Shakespearean English in style and dialects , MSA or Modern Standard Arabic is today`s language spoken (broadly comparable to southern English) , then throw in broader dialects (south Yemen woman wouldn't understand an Egyptian - which is like asking a Glaswegian to chat with a cockney) , and each have their own interpretation of the words.
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It isn't just about literal interpretation, etc. though thing with the Quran is that a lot of stuff can require understanding of diverse parts of it - something can apply to a given historical time and (something some Muslims play coy with) potentially also be relevant in a future time when understood in the light of another passage but depending on circumstances potentially not the present moment and so on.
 
Rroff said:
It isn't just about literal interpretation, etc. though thing with the Quran is that a lot of stuff can require understanding of diverse parts of it - something can apply to a given historical time and (something some Muslims play coy with) potentially also be relevant in a future time when understood in the light of another passage but depending on circumstances potentially not the present moment and so on.
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oh I agree - but when most Muslims `learn` the Qur`an by rote - understanding isn't required. The ones who do understand the meaning behind the verses are taught the interpretation by someone else - and so on and so forth.

Add in an interpretation from someone with an agenda , and a chain of events can unfold.

Remember dear readers - unlike every other religion`s holy book - the Qur`an is taken to be `The word of God`, rather than from man.

It has also never been updated, the words now - and the same as the first ones written , within a decade of Mohammed`s death , proof being , The great Mosque of Sana (and amazingly , Birmingham university) has pages of the oldest Qur`an in existence.
 
Johno please? said:
Found this vid recently, predicting Assads downfall in 2005.
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There was a video knocking around of an ex US general who said that plans were already in place straight after 9/11.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wesley_Clark

In Clark's book, Winning Modern Wars, published in 2003, he describes his conversation with a military officer in the Pentagon shortly after 9/11 regarding a plan to attack seven Middle Eastern countries in five years: "As I went back through the Pentagon in November 2001, one of the senior military staff officers had time for a chat. Yes, we were still on track for going against Iraq, he said. But there was more. This was being discussed as part of a five-year campaign plan, he said, and there were a total of seven countries, beginning with Iraq, then Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and finishing off Iran."
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Obviously things aren't going to plan and that evil Putin isn't helping.
 
RoboCod said:
The UK once had continued civil unrest, infighting, revolt, it progressed. It's nothing to do with the cultures, we're just at different times in development of our countries.
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So centuries ago. Are you going to mention the crusades next?
RoboCod said:
I'm amazed how pro-dictatorship some of our posters are. Pretty sad really.
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I'm amazed how pro-butcherfest some of our posters are. Pretty sad really.
 
Skunkworks said:
Our human nature is the product of hundreds of thousands of years of evolution. It is innate and needs to be managed in a modern society, as trying to suppress it will create a dysfunctional society.
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Pro suppression one thread, anti suppression the other. You're simply argumentative, boring really.
 
RoboCod said:
I guess it's easy to be an argumentative armchair expert when you're sitting pretty and not living in fear under an oppressive regime.
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More oppressed people in government held Latakia

https://www.facebook.com/safwan.kadro/posts/1428470677167591
14940207_1428468780501114_8419251422755465274_o.jpg

14918755_1428468720501120_4927400570432567669_o.jpg

From a couple of weeks ago.

The only oppressed people in Syria prior were people with extreme religious views bordering on jihadis.

many of these were all locked up before the "popular uprising" which is what may of the people were complaining about. Assad released these people at the request of the uprising and what did they all do, Join extremist groups....
 
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