ISIL, ISIS, Daesh discussion thread.

So are you saying he hasn't used them in the past? Have you read the wiki article i linked, where the UN say that he's done it a lot.

Yes, I have read it. And no, the UN doesn't say he's the only one who's done it, or "a lot". The wording in the beginning of that wiki article is very misleading, likely intentionally so (so readers get the impression you mistakenly did). The UN investigation into the Ghouta* and Khan al-Assal incidents, concluded the "probable use" of chemical weapons by the rebels, not Assad.

The wiki article states UN confirmation that chemical weapons have been used in Syria (probably fact), then very loosely states Assad is considered the main suspect (but fails to state by WHOM), and then continues by mentioning the confirmed use of chemical weapons in Ghouta* and Khan al-Assal, wholly omitting the fact that in these instances the UN concluded the rebels were the main suspects. That is extremely dodgy relaying of the facts, designed to give the impression Assad is responsible for all of this.


* EDIT - Actually Jobar, not Ghouta.

Initial paragraphs aside, the table in that wiki then clearly shows that the Syrian army is not the only party blamed by the UN for chemical attacks, and that Syrian army soldiers have been victims of chemical attacks a number of times. So other parties must be considered, particularly when the motive for them doing this screams to high heaven.

Only on two occasions, has the UN concluded and directly accused Assad's forces of using chlorine. Chlorine. That's not a chemical weapon, although it can be used as one. Is it better, or worse, than something like the white phosphorous used by the US military? Is 80 people killed by gas (allegedly) better, or worse, than 200 killed in a US airstrike in Mosul two weeks ago? Is Theresa May a war criminal for her role in the genocide of Yemen?

I have seen video of so-called rebel "doctors" killing a baby by pretending to inject the heart with adrenaline, whilst intentionally angling the needle everywhere inside the chest, like you would with a knife in an attempt to kill someone, moving and tearing organs, to make sure it dies and counts as one more statistic in "the long list of his own people that Assad has killed". I have seen video of rebels eating the hearts of Syrian army soldiers. I have seen videos of children drugged to their eyeballs with opiates, to make it look like they are dead, for the cameras. Every time the media screams that Assad is killing his own people, it's like they are suspending the fact that Al-Nusra, Al-Qaeda, ISIL etc even exist, and that innocent people are always going to be caught up in war, and suffer. A war that US and British (and others') policy also bears much responsibility for.
 
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Yes, I have read it. And no, the UN doesn't say he's the only one who's done it, or "a lot". The wording in the beginning of that wiki article is very misleading, likely intentionally so (so readers get the impression you mistakenly did). The UN investigation into the Ghouta and Khan al-Assal incidents, concluded the "probable use" of chemical weapons by the rebels, not Assad.

I'm not denying there's wrong doing on both sides, i've already said that.

Where did you read that the UN said the Ghouta attack was by the rebels? Ake Sellstrom who headed the UN team for the Ghouta attacks said otherwise.
 
I'm not denying there's wrong doing on both sides, i've already said that.

Where did you read that the UN said the Ghouta attack was by the rebels? Ake Sellstrom who headed the UN team for the Ghouta attacks said otherwise.

I apologize. It was Jobar, not Ghouta. Got them mixed up.

The quotes from the UN report can be seen here: http://www.globalresearch.ca/syria-...ainst-civilians-and-government-forces/5363139

Seymour Hersh (of Watergate fame) disagrees with Sellstrom regarding Ghouta, for what it's worth. He's been investigating this for a while.

Will edit my previous post.
 
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The Pentagon released a map Thursday that reportedly shows the flight pattern of a Syrian aircraft that dropped chemical weapons on civilians Tuesday.

The map was released hours after President Donald Trump ordered the U.S. military to fire 59 Tomahawk missiles at a northern Syrian airbase, in retaliation for Syrian President Bashar al-Assad’s attack.

“We have a very high level of confidence that the attacks were carried out by aircraft under the direction of the Bashar al-Assad regime, and we also have very high confidence that the attacks involved the use of sarin nerve gas,” U.S. Secretary of State Rex Tillerson told reporters Thursday.

National Security Advisor H.R. McMaster similarly told reporters “our intelligence community in cooperation with our friends and partners and allies around the world collaborated to determine with a very high degree of confidence precisely where the location originated. And then, of course, the sorts of chemicals that were used in the attack.”
Source
 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39540340

Syrian man trying to speak out against what's going on in Syria and he's drowned out by muppets who just aren't willing to listen. What they do to him is essentially what a number of posters on here are doing. They don't care what the people are going through and who caused it, they just want a dig at the 'West'.
 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39540340

Syrian man trying to speak out against what's going on in Syria and he's drowned out by muppets who just aren't willing to listen. What they do to him is essentially what a number of posters on here are doing. They don't care what the people are going through and who caused it, they just want a dig at the 'West'.

Standard. No one cares, they just want to argue their political agenda and hope someone else cares enough to validate their opinion. 99% of these people have never stepped foot in the ME, let alone Syria or Iraq, nor do they have anything more to go on than the social media sources that they frantically reference as citation.
 
Perhaps if we had more prisons like this one in Montevideo then the rate of radicalisation within prisons would be lower!

The Uruguayan prison where inmates set up shop
Every weekday morning, Cesar Campo wakes up, eats a quick breakfast and heads to work in a converted warehouse where he builds tables, chairs, bookcases and anything else that clients request.
Close by, his neighbours make bricks, grow vegetables and run shops such as cafes, a bakery, a barber's salon and a tattoo studio.

Its director, Luis Parodi, is a former schoolteacher who believes that "if the context changes, the man changes" and who runs his prison based on three fundamental elements: work, education and culture.
"We want to provide the best daily life possible, so prisoners can sleep peacefully and do not feel humiliated, scared or fearful," Mr Parodi told the BBC.

By creating a "village" which mimics the outside world as closely as conditions allow, he hopes to ease the rocky transition when prisoners return to freedom.
Source


 
Isn't that not far off what US prisons do? Paying the prisoners way under minimum wage and forcing them to build things to be sold.
 
A random thought occurred to me earlier, it's not like the Syrian military has an inventory/stores system on par with the USA/UK/etc.

How sad would it be if all this is kicking off because 20 years ago some idiot mislabelled a munition or put a Sarin warhead in the wrong section, and nobody has the balls to tell Assad/Putin what happened lol.
 
I mean ISIS was brewing regardless as it was partly Saddam's Old guard coming for revenge, but perhaps it would have been different if the democratically elected leader wasn't a massively bent **** to the people who had just lost power.
Nothing makes people love the new government like persecuting them like the old one did lol.
 
A random thought occurred to me earlier, it's not like the Syrian military has an inventory/stores system on par with the USA/UK/etc.

How sad would it be if all this is kicking off because 20 years ago some idiot mislabelled a munition or put a Sarin warhead in the wrong section, and nobody has the balls to tell Assad/Putin what happened lol.
From my understanding some chemical weapons like Sarin etc tend to be stored as their precursors for safety/ease of storage (some are fairly corrosive to the shells).

Even if stored with poor inventory control I believe even third world countries tend to have larger munitions such as artillery shells individually marked with what type it is, date of manufacture etc as it is meant to help prevent mistakes on the front line where you might end up with shells of different types stored near each other.
I think chemical shells are also

Given Assad's previous behaviour I have little doubt he knowingly used chemical weapons, as it ties in with a lot of prior behaviour, he's routinely used improvised bombs dropped from helicopters over mainly civilian areas, and he's used chemical weapons before.
It makes no sense from the point of view of killing the fighting enemy, but from a point of view of terrifying the civilian population and showing other potential opponents that he doesn't care who he kills, it makes perfect if horrible and twisted sense as it helps cow them into doing what he wants.
 
Perhaps if we had more prisons like this one in Montevideo then the rate of radicalisation within prisons would be lower!

The Uruguayan prison where inmates set up shop
Source

Working well in Britain, another great Liberal idea.

Lags pictured having a booze-up and getting wasted on cider in a park while they’re on day release to work in gourmet diner
The men work as waiters and kitchen staff in The Clink restaurant in Cardiff, a high-end eatery run by charity aiming to reform criminals

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/32957...eyre-on-day-release-to-work-in-gourmet-diner/
 
A random thought occurred to me earlier, it's not like the Syrian military has an inventory/stores system on par with the USA/UK/etc.

How sad would it be if all this is kicking off because 20 years ago some idiot mislabelled a munition or put a Sarin warhead in the wrong section, and nobody has the balls to tell Assad/Putin what happened lol.

That isn't far-fetched some might think, there is a lot of weapons and equipment that are being moved around, abandoned, captured, recaptured and even traded in deals among the different groups all over Iraq and Syria plus a lot of home made stuff due to lack of supplies.

Saw a album of photos few weeks ago where the Iraq Army found a ISIL factory where they was storing and building home made chemical weapons. Only a few weeks ago, ISIL used one against some Syrian Army units or was it Iraqi, I try to find the album later.
 
Working well in Britain, another great Liberal idea.

Lags pictured having a booze-up and getting wasted on cider in a park while they’re on day release to work in gourmet diner
The men work as waiters and kitchen staff in The Clink restaurant in Cardiff, a high-end eatery run by charity aiming to reform criminals

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/32957...eyre-on-day-release-to-work-in-gourmet-diner/

I know, I mean what's the point at looking at the studies and data to see the effect of such programs on the overall recidivism rate when we can learn everything there is to know about its efficacy from a Sun headline!

So much easier, especially when you not only have the reading age of a seven year old but the cognition level of one as well
 
I know, I mean what's the point at looking at the studies and data to see the effect of such programs on the overall recidivism rate when we can learn everything there is to know about its efficacy from a Sun headline!

The US have been doing it for years but most still reoffend. We used to make them work here but the lefties call it slave labour.
 
When a friend went to Greece to live he was visited by a local police inspector. he had a bit of a colourful criminal history in the UK, nothing major, some fighting and brawling, some drink related offences. It was made crystal clear they knew all about it, and Greek prisons were not like UK ones with TV's, games rooms, and a life of Riley. No, they were ill kept, dirty, run with rods of iron, and should you fall ill in one, which was quite likely due to "not being used to Greek food, served reheated several times on the same plate", he was unlikely to be offered more than a dirty look for soiling his cell and the dubious odds of recovering without medical help.

He kept his nose clean, especially after later meeting an English bloke who lived near him in Greece who had personal experience of their prison system.

Tell a bloke the old woman in the tobacconist is stone deaf, and has poor eyesight, as well as being infirm and kindly to shop lifters in court, and he'll risk nicking 10 packets of fags. Tell him she can hear a pin drop, has eye's like a hawk, security cameras and three crazed Rottweilers in the back room, and has a life long hatred of shoplifters, and he'll probably move to a softer target.

Same with prisons, the UK has afar too soft an approach, and I suspect many of the prison staff are as bent as the in mates. Would you rather be in the nick in England or China? Which would you risk more in pursuit of some felony? Personally I don't believe in rehab in prison for 90% of inmates. I just want them off the street being severely punished by hard labour and deprivation.
 
What are they going to do? throw rocks at passing US planes? lol.

Russia and Iran have warned the US they will “respond with force” if their own “red lines” are crossed in Syria.

Following Friday’s cruise missile strike on a Syrian airbase, in retaliation for the chemical attack on Khan Sheikhoun earlier in the week, the alliance supporting Syrian President Bashar al-Assad made a joint statement threatening action in response to “any breach of red lines from whoever it is”.

“What America waged in an aggression on Syria is a crossing of red lines. From now on we will respond with force to any aggressor or any breach of red lines from whoever it is and America knows our ability to respond well,” the group’s joint command centre said.

US President Donald Trump said the strike on al Shayrat airbase, near Homs, with some 60 Tomahawk missiles was “representing the world”. The base was allegedly used by Syrian forces to conduct the attack, which killed more than 70 people.

On Sunday the UK’s Defence Secretary, Sir Michael Fallon, demanded Russia rein in Mr Assad, claiming that Moscow is “responsible for every civilian death” in Khan Sheikhoun.

Sir Michael said the attack had happened “on their watch” and that Vladimir Putin must now live up to previous promises that Mr Assad’s chemical weapons had been destroyed.

Experts have dismissed Russia’s claim that a rebel chemical weapons facility caused the deaths.

Britain, the US and France accused Mr Assad’s regime of gassing civilians in the opposition-held town, but Damascus claimed it destroyed its toxic stockpiles following an international agreement struck in 2013.

The Russian defence ministry put out a competing version of events claiming legitimate Syrian air strikes against “terrorists” had struck a warehouse used to produce and store shells containing toxic gas, which were allegedly being sent to Iraq.

The joint command centre also said on Sunday the missile strike would not deter it from “liberating” Syria, and that the US military presence in the north of the country amounted to an illegal “occupation”.

Mr Putin and Iranian leader Hassan Rouhani have called for an objective investigation into the chemical attack.

US Secretary of State Rex Tillerson said on Sunday that Moscow had failed to carry out the 2013 agreement to secure and destroy chemical weapons in Syria.

“The failure related to the recent strike and the recent terrible chemical weapons attack in large measure is a failure on Russia’s part to achieve its commitment to the international community,” he said on ABC’s This Week.

Mr Tillerson is expected in Moscow in the coming days for talks with Russian officials.

He stopped short of accusing Russia of being directly involved in the planning or execution of the attack.

But he said the US expected Russia to take a tougher stance against Syria by rethinking its alliance with Mr Assad because “every time one of these horrific attacks occurs, it draws Russia closer into some level of responsibility.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a7675031.html
 
I apologize. It was Jobar, not Ghouta. Got them mixed up.

The quotes from the UN report can be seen here: http://www.globalresearch.ca/syria-...ainst-civilians-and-government-forces/5363139

Seymour Hersh (of Watergate fame) disagrees with Sellstrom regarding Ghouta, for what it's worth. He's been investigating this for a while.

Will edit my previous post.

What about this?
http://www.globalresearch.ca/delete...attack-in-syria-to-be-blamed-on-assad/5339178

Leaked emails have allegedly proved that the White House gave the green light to a chemical weapons attack in Syria that could be blamed on Assad's regime and in turn, spur international military action in the devastated country.

A report released on Monday contains an email exchange between two senior officials at British-based contractor Britam Defence where a scheme 'approved by Washington' is outlined explaining that Qatar would fund rebel forces in Syria to use chemical weapons.

It's kind of suspicous that the article has since been deleted, it's not like DailyMail have a reputation of accuracy to maintain. :p
 
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