Yep, because you demonstrate clear misunderstandings of the situation.
ISIL, ISIS, Daesh discussion thread.
- Thread starter RoboCod
- Start date
what civilian air liners have to do with the discussion here I don't know.You claimed that Syria had lost control of it's airspace, I pointed out it hadn't and used many facts to refute the claim. The fact they still have total control of civilian air traffic was one of them.
Soldato
We're better than fascist tyrants, thats why, I never said our hands were clean.
The statement is whether iraq had "peace and stablility"... not whether America agreed with the Iran war. I gave you the facts as to why that statement is false.
Here, a bit of knowledge for you....
It has lost control of its airspace, not all of it, but most of it and the land beneath, that's pretty much what I said. If they had control, daesh wouldn't have been running amok across the country. Since that is/was happening, I think it's safe to say, Assad does not have control. You can tell me he did until you're blue in the face, the reality is clearly he didn't. On the other hand, if you class Damascus as the whole country, then sure I see why you think what you do. Does London = England now?
Just to point, civilian airspace and deconflicted tac c2 controlled airspace are totally different things. I presume you know that since you have it all figured out, following since the start.
Associate
You realize that the syrian air force's planes are mostly decrepit (decrepit AF actually) old Mig-21 with dumb gravity bombs that look like they are made in some guy's cellar in his free time?
The Syrian airforce is free to fly where it wants in its own airspace? did someone threaten a no fly zone?
if they are free to fly in the air above syria as we know it marked on a globe. then surely they control the airspace and have superiority just not boots on the ground.
technically you could claim they lost control of it to russia.
I don't get who they have lost control of it's airspace to. unless you mean the USA because they can pretty much run bombing/surveilance missions as they see fit.
but they are not controlling the airspace only entering in to it.
They have limited control of civilian air traffic and that is only to and from 4 major airports - 3 of which only serve limited domestic flights mostly for emergencies and the other has a narrow corridor directly in and out of the country and is the only airport serving international travel - I believe its the direct route into Lebanese air space.
I guess it comes down a bit to specifics - there are many forces in Syria that still have significant anti-air capabilities (mostly a long the lines of MANPADS though there are at least 2 fully functional Shilkas in the hands of opposing forces as well as the ones that are only capable of engaging targets on the ground) plus US, Israel and Turkey over fly the country so far largely uncontested - IIRC the last Israel incursion was somewhat pushed back eventually.
Its a bit of a stretch from what is normally talked about in terms of controlling airspace.
EDIT: As before this is why Russia has expedited the deployment of two more S-400 systems https://www.rt.com/news/416738-s-400-syria-russia/ so that Syria actually has control of a larger amount of their air space.
Last edited:
Basically, a large amount of Syria is empty desert of zero strategic value, because of this not much effort has been expended to take that territory back from ISIS, as a result while the Syrian government controls 80-90% of the land worth controlling it still looks like the extremists are doing well if you glance at a map who controls what with no idea what you're looking at. As a result of that he seems to believe that Syria has lost control of it's airspace because they don't' control all the empty land anymore lol.
Russia began deploying S-400s in response to Turkey shooting down one of their planes.
Since my job entails knowing the orbats for all air forces in the region and their daily movements, yes I do.
Lol.
That's actually incorrect.
The Syrian air forces planes are mostly MiG-23's (a generation after the MiG-21 but still pretty dated now, comparable to an F-4), plus their MiG-29s and their Su-22/24 ground attack aircraft. Their MiG-21's are all rotting in hangers for the same reason everyone else's are, nobody really keeps functional MiG-21s anymore because you can't get the parts and they're pretty useless nowadays unless you want to engage helicopters or airliners.
Boy sure can Google.
Looks like Turkey might not even be stopping with Syria:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/world...-east-42831296
Last edited by a moderator:
Don
Russian jet shot down over northern Syria apparently.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-42932616
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-42932616
Caporegime
Might make turkey think twice if the rebels show they've got bite.
Soldato
Hmm was it shot down or mechanical fault?
Soldato
That Russian pilot had some balls. Not only did he fight off a wave of terrorists with his pistol but, upon being overrun by them, shouted something along the lines of "this is for all the dead Russians" before pulling the pin on a grenade and taking a few of the scum with him.
Soldato
- Joined
- 8 Jan 2009
- Posts
- 4,590
Russians are hardcore, so much respect for them guys.
Not sure - I know its not a video game so things like sensors aren't perfect and they might not might not have full electronics suites installed (though I'd have thought it would have been a priority for Syria even if they couldn't afford it fleet wide) but the SU-25 has decent ability to detect lock on from active systems like radar (though some systems have UV backup and MANPADS are often passive IR homing) and other signatures which usually results in them chaffing heavily especially before and after attack runs if they suspect or detect the use of lock on systems and IR jamming which in theory can defeat 1-2 MANPADS used against it, etc. like the A-10 this line of aircraft have high survivability from all but like a networked SAM system, etc.
The videos aren't very clear but it looked like he was lining up for a second attack run and the explosion happened about the time he'd be firing - it looked more like a fault with the missile (actually rockets I think in this case) system than being shot down.
EDIT: At the end of the day it is war and things don't go perfectly and they might have had to emergency extend a mission, etc. but after the first couple of incidents they started using very disciplined procedures for ground attack using two aircraft covering each other and heavy use of counter measures in and out of the target area in situations like this which doesn't seem to be followed in the videos I can find.
EDIT2: Interestingly there are suggestions that Turkey has deployed upto 30 M-113 based anti-air systems in support of FSA in that area - would be interesting if it turned out one of those had been used to shoot this SU-25 down.
Last edited:
Got to love the championing of all things Russian here... Yet the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, Syrian Network for Human Rights and Violations Documentation Centre all report Russian air strikes have resulted in them killing more civilians than they have ISIS. They also claim a greater proportion of civilian deaths than International Coalition there.
Since they like to use unguided and cluster bombs, thats unsurprising. Had these stats apply to the US instead, I'm sure there would be much hooning about it here from the usual shills. On the contrary, it's the usual bemoaning of UAV strikes....
Russians are hardcore, so much respect for those guys....hahhaa
Since they like to use unguided and cluster bombs, thats unsurprising. Had these stats apply to the US instead, I'm sure there would be much hooning about it here from the usual shills. On the contrary, it's the usual bemoaning of UAV strikes....
Russians are hardcore, so much respect for those guys....hahhaa