ISIL, ISIS, Daesh discussion thread.

[Sankari]

Haha, not funny at all, i'm afraid.

Funny, because it's true.

No it isn't

Evidence please.

Lets do a chemical attack when everything was going to plan. Yeh that totally makes sense.

'Let's launch a chemical attack to avoid risking elite soldiers we can't afford to lose because our forces are badly depleted after 7 years of civil war. We can get away chemical warfare because every time we do it Russian and Iranian propaganda channels step in to assure everyone that we didn't do it, and a bunch of useful idiots in the West who think they're 'woke' all stand up and scream 'SYRIA IS INNOCENT, BLAME THE WESTERN IMPERIALIST WARMONGERS!' Of course, this means we'll have to claim that the rebels used chemical weapons on their own people in their own territory, which makes no sense at all, but the kind of people who read RT.com and PressTV aren't exactly known for their critical thinking skills, so that's OK.'

On Saturday, the Russian press, at least, reported that Army of Islam spokesmen boasted that the special operations Panther Forces (Quwwat al-Nimr) that had been committed against Ghouta militias were taking high numbers of casualties from Army of Islam snipers as they tried to advance into Douma.

The regime has suffered a military collapse over the past 7 years, with most Sunni Arabs deserting or defecting. Alawi Shiite troops are for the most part loyal to the regime, but there may be only 35,000 or 50,000 of them left (the Syrian Arab Army had 300,000 troops in 2010).

The long and the short of it is that strongman Bashar al-Assad cannot afford to lose highly trained and highly valuable Panther Forces troops in large numbers.

Chemical weapons are used by desperate regimes that are either outnumbered by the enemy or are reluctant to take casualties in their militaries. Barrel-bombing Douma with chem seems to have appealed to the regime as a tactic for this reason. It had the potential of frightening the Douma population into deserting the Army of Islam.

(Source).

The spiral of foreign policy failures seems too juicy for administrations of the Permanent members of the UN to ignore seemingly.

Yes, Russia does have a curious addiction to this stuff. Never quite understood it myself.

 

[StriderX]

Yes I know it's likely to be Russian propaganda and Syrian aggression, but that doesn't preclude the idea that considering our own agenda's in the area, that we are somehow Teflon coated roses with nary a bad thought.

A valid discussion requires that you look at all sides of all arguments, not just dictate because you have a side.

Historical context of McCarthyism (important only due to Russian involvement), CIA operations, dogmatic lies in both UK/US administrations in the recent past are all i need to know that we aren't angels.

 

[Nelly]

Makes you wonder if Israel gave any warning to Russia prior to the attack? Do Russia have servicemen on that Syrian air base? Seems really idiotic and perilous if Israel didn't let Russia know like the USA did prior to their missile strike in 2017.

I'm guessing Israel went through the right channels and requested to use Lebanese airspace to carry out the attack?

 

[Sankari]

Makes you wonder if Israel gave any warning to Russia prior to the attack? Do Russia have servicemen on that Syrian air base? Seems really idiotic and perilous if Israel didn't let Russia know like the USA did prior to their missile strike in 2017.

I'm guessing Israel went through the right channels and requested to use Lebanese airspace to carry out the attack?

There have been questions raised about Israel's culpability, but all the available evidence points directly to her. This is the second time she's hit the Tiyas base, and you can bet your bottom dollar she didn't give warnings or ask for anyone's permission.

 

[Freddie1980]

Trump has to respond in force but given his personality I can see his retaliatory strikes being 10x worse then the last time. IMO he should instruct his commanders to take out as much of the Syrian air force they can find so it's neutralized from carrying out these kinds of attacks again.

 

[Minusorange]

Funny, because it's true.

Apparently hated in his country yet casually drives around a war torn area in a ******* honda

How our leaders in the West "casually" drive round town

 

[IronWarrior]

Apparently hated in his country yet casually drives around a war torn area in a ******* honda

He does this pretty often too, it's not a publicity stunt.

Amazing how different that highway is now. I remember back in the early stages of the war, SSA tanks and APC's and troops driving along it and over it to attack the terrorists, the highway was still active too, normal cars and trucks using it as gunfire from the tanks and APC's are firing away.

They was driving passed the military vehicles as they was firing shots like it was normal.

The above video, I don't think it's the same highway as the one above that I was talking about or the one that Assed drove on, but pretty much the same stuff that happened.

 

[IronWarrior]

Everyone should read this. https://www.voltairenet.org/IMG/pdf/possible-implications-of-bad-intelligence.pdf

 

[Minusorange]

The above video, I don't think it's the same highway as the one above that I was talking about or the one that Assed drove on, but pretty much the same stuff that happened.

It's disgusting what happened in Syria, it was one of the most multicultural country in the middle east and now it's all destroyed thanks to Western meddling even worse all the historical monuments that ISIS have destroyed, something we will never get back

You could argue it's all staged and these vids are just propaganda but it sheds a different light on the "Assad is evil and the most hated man in Syria" narrative but even reading the comments lots of Syrians praise him

 

[Johno please?]

It's disgusting what happened in Syria, it was one of the most multicultural country in the middle east and now it's all destroyed thanks to Western meddling even worse all the historical monuments that ISIS have destroyed, something we will never get back

Syria imploded, just like Iraq was going to at some point, infact Syria is a pretty good example of what happens when we don't intervene.

The west had no involvment until civilians started to get bombed and ISIS decided to make Raqqa their HQ.

Seeing as we're posting vids, heres Hitchens predicting Assads downfall.

 

[Minusorange]

The west had no involvment until civilians started to get bombed and ISIS decided to make Raqqa their HQ.

How Naive you are

Wikileaks has reported that the U.S. government has been covertly funding the Syrian opposition since 2006.[40] Special Activities Division teams are speculated to have been deployed to Syria during the uprising to ascertain rebel groups, leadership and potential supply routes

Long before the civil war the CIA has been dipping its toes into Syria and the rest of the Middle East

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_activities_in_Syria

Nearly 70 years of interference from our side of the world

$1billion spent on destroying a nation

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/02/world/middleeast/cia-syria-rebel-arm-train-trump.html

Imagine if that money was spent on things that actually helped humanity instead of trying to divide it

 

[stopper]

The west had no involvment until civilians started to get bombed and ISIS decided to make Raqqa their HQ.

you're joking, right?
2009 Syria refused to build the Qatar-Turkey pipeline through their country (do the research), and ever since that moment they have a terrorist and chemical attack "problem". Sounds to me like some thing planned up by oil barons of the United States.
Much like the Afghanistan and opium war, and the Iraq and oil war.

 

[IronWarrior]

It's disgusting what happened in Syria, it was one of the most multicultural country in the middle east and now it's all destroyed thanks to Western meddling even worse all the historical monuments that ISIS have destroyed, something we will never get back

You could argue it's all staged and these vids are just propaganda but it sheds a different light on the "Assad is evil and the most hated man in Syria" narrative but even reading the comments lots of Syrians praise him

It is disgusting, it's a damn crime that we have allowed the country to fall like this, we honestly on the wrong side of history supporting the terrorists and "FSA". Syria was a pretty nice country before, it had it's problems for sure as you expect in a middle easten country.

Syrians enjoyed pretty much everything we enjoy here. They had religious freedom, social freedom, discrimination wasn't really a thing, economy wasn't great, but it wasn't bad, the government was stable and strong, they had good social services including free healthcare. Country was safe, schooling was free and good.

The big negatives was they didn't like the kurds, police state, corruption and no political freedom, which to be honest, is no different to any other middle easten country, for example... Saudi Arabia or Dubai.

But things was improving in that country, it was getting better.

This BBC documentary shows school life in Damacus in 2010, one year before the civil war.

https://vimeo.com/9402444

I would think most of the kids and people in this video could be dead now or serving in the military. I feel sorry for the Iraqi boy... he left Iraq to get away from the bombs and entered something worst. He should be of military age now.

 

[ubersonic]

Syrians enjoyed pretty much everything we enjoy here. They had religious freedom, social freedom, discrimination wasn't really a thing, economy wasn't great, but it wasn't bad, the government was stable and strong, they had good social services including free healthcare. Country was safe, schooling was free and good.

The thing that is tragically comical, is that one of the rebels biggest initial gripes with the Syrian government was that they had banned the goddamn Burka in schools/universities lol. That alone should have sent up red flags about the people we were planning to back but on no, our government prove yet again how they can turn any situation into a steaming mess >.>

 

[Minusorange]

The big negatives was they didn't like the kurds, police state, corruption and no political freedom, which to be honest, is no different to any other middle easten country, for example... Saudi Arabia or Dubai.

For sure, the place was far from a utopia but as Middle Eastern nations go it was one of the most welcoming and diverse, I would have rather gone on holiday to Syria if given the chance than somewhere more extreme like Saudi Arabia yet, SA are our allies and Syria our enemy.

It's the same with Libya too, once a fairly progressive country destroyed by war and regime change

Now I'm not saying Assad is a saint, like most world leaders/dictators he's probably a snake with his own demons but I don't agree with the biased one sided narrative we get spoon fed by our own media that only paints the picture in a single colour

 

[Amnesia]

For sure, the place was far from a utopia but as Middle Eastern nations go it was one of the most welcoming and diverse, I would have rather gone on holiday to Syria if given the chance than somewhere more extreme like Saudi Arabia yet, SA are our allies and Syria our enemy.

It's the same with Libya too, once a fairly progressive country destroyed by war and regime change

Now I'm not saying Assad is a saint, like most world leaders/dictators he's probably a snake with his own demons but I don't agree with the biased one sided narrative we get spoon fed by our own media that only paints the picture in a single colour

are you daring to question the information our government provides us ? our government never lies, never has ulterior motives and always has only the publics interest at heart!!"!!!

 

[StriderX]

I may be a cynical *******, but using voltairenet is too much even for me. I wonder if there's a truly and explicitly unbiased source anymore.

 

[Andy_82]

I may be a cynical *******, but using voltairenet is too much even for me. I wonder if there's a truly and explicitly unbiased source anymore.

there isn't such a thing as an unbiased source.

Will be interested what the OPCW report says this time, although i think it most likely Assad's Forces are the culprits, with Russia's protection they can pretty much do what they want.

 

[Danny75]

i think it most likely Assad's Forces are the culprits, with Russia's protection they can pretty much do what they want.

Solid argument. Backed up by the facts, including Assad ordering regular air strikes on Israeli air bases and government infrastructure.

 

[Minusorange]

are you daring to question the information our government provides us ? our government never lies, never has ulterior motives and always has only the publics interest at heart!!"!!!

I blame Sunday school for giving me a questioning of indoctrination personality