ISIL, ISIS, Daesh discussion thread.

People don’t seem to be empathetic enough to understand she was obviously groomed to go there as an under age child.

The whole unprecedented stripping of her citizenship was a rash decision to appease and appeal to certain demographics .

Objectively you can look at this and see that there was a vulnerable young teenager that was groomed into going.

She deserved to be brought back and tried in our courts and serve a sentence proportionate to her crimes.
 
Allnamestaken said:
People don’t seem to be empathetic enough to understand she was obviously groomed to go there as an under age child.

The whole unprecedented stripping of her citizenship was a rash decision to appease and appeal to certain demographics .

Objectively you can look at this and see that there was a vulnerable young teenager that was groomed into going.

She deserved to be brought back and tried in our courts and serve a sentence proportionate to her crimes.
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I have seen zero evidence of this assertion - despite her defence team and the BBC pearl-clutchers making it several times over.

Did you know that the EU commissioned a report into understanding the processes that people who were radicalised went through to become radicalised? and that they particularly wanted to understand the differences between radicalisation of males and females?

The report concluded that on the whole women self-radicalised by seeking out information on the internet without being pushed to it by other extremists. Men had to be pushed to it and effectively brainwashed into radicalisation - which makes sense when you consider those men were almost all going to die as suicide bombers and the women weren't.

She's done nothing to deserve being bought back as our courts have ruled several times over now and doubtless will continue to do so.

While you might consider the stripping of her citizenship and entirely political thing, our Supreme court has a habit of stamping on decisions by the government that they consider bad or unlawful (proroguing of Parliament by Boris Johnson for example) and they haven't done so in this case - they are seeing evidence that we are not and are keeping her out of our country and I trust for good reason. Let this terrorist live her time out in the desert, she doesn't deserve our hospitality.



EDIT: I can't find the original EU report I've cited here, but this Council of Europe report drives mostly the same findings and has a significant list of references as proof points that drive the same findings: https://rm.coe.int/CoERMPublicCommonSearchServices/DisplayDCTMContent?documentId=09000016806b33a7
Beggum isn't a victim here and the notion she was 'groomed' is false. She was recruited which is very different as it requires willingness and engagement on behalf of the recruitee to reach out to the recruiter to discuss and negotiate joining an organisation.
 
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Yeah let me trust the same govenment that handed out billions in covid contracts to friends of the party, with people such as braverman or Patel as Home Secretaries.

We can really trust they did the right thing when they have a proven track record of doing the opposite. Ontop of putting unqualified people in power who make decisions to appease their base.

She had her citizenship stripped before any real justice could have been applied.

She was kid. We all hate isis terrorists and she did a bad thing by going over there but I’m just looking at it objectively, she was a kid.
 
Allnamestaken said:
People don’t seem to be empathetic enough to understand she was obviously groomed to go there as an under age child.

The whole unprecedented stripping of her citizenship was a rash decision to appease and appeal to certain demographics .

Objectively you can look at this and see that there was a vulnerable young teenager that was groomed into going.

She deserved to be brought back and tried in our courts and serve a sentence proportionate to her crimes.
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I don't know about you, but I certainly knew right from wrong at that age, as did all of my friends and other acquaintances.

Yes, 15 year olds make mistakes and sometimes break the law, but leaving your family and your country behind to join a brutal terrorist organisation responsible for murdering innocent people? Come on now... She knew exactly what she was getting herself into. You'd have to be utterly brain dead not to.
 
G-MAN2004 said:
I don't know about you, but I certainly knew right from wrong at that age, as did all of my friends and other acquaintances.

Yes, 15 year olds make mistakes and sometimes break the law, but leaving your family and your country behind to join a brutal terrorist organisation responsible for murdering innocent people? Come on now... She knew exactly what she was getting herself into. You'd have to be utterly brain dead not to.
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People who are groomed tend to do things that other people don’t understand.
You can apply that logic to any number of situations where a young person Has been influenced or groomed.

She was legally a child and any ideological brainwashing/self radicalisation/grooming would have happened over a period of time before she was 15. How long? We don’t know that. If it started at 14 or 13? Did she know what she was doing then? Young adults are vulnerable at that age.

Yes people don’t just go off and join isis on a whim when there 15, your right normally they would understand it’s wrong to join terrorist organisation.
Which is exactly why this case isn’t normal, she was a kid. Which is exactly why it needed deeper investigation before knee jerk stripping her citizenship. She should have been brought back and tried as a citizen of this country which she was at the time.
 
Allnamestaken said:
No but she was a kid.

People just conveniently forget that in this case for one odd reason or another.
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No one is forgetting she was a kid, we are just not letting that excuse her actions.

Being a kid is not an excuse for running off to join a murderous death cult that is an enemy not only of our country but of all that is good and decent in the world. There are plenty of 'kids' her age who deal with their issues by acting out at school or sulking in their bedrooms. They ALL know the difference between right and wrong and Beggum knew it too but chose her path anyway. Let her deal with the consequences of her actions.
 
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Moley said:
That's not an excuse for running off to join a murderous death cult that is an enemy not only of our country but of all that is good and decent in the world. There are plenty of 'kids' her age who deal with their issues by acting out at school or sulking in their bedrooms. They ALL know the difference between right and wrong and Beggum knew it too but chose her path anyway. Let her deal with the consequences of her actions.
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If all kids knew what was right or wrong why don’t we allow them to make certain decisions for themselves? Obviously it isn’t the case, kids more often than not do not know exactly what they are doing or getting themselves into. It’s an easy assumption for you to a make as an adult with hindsight and no childhood indoctrination/grooming/self radicalisation involved (I’m assuming).

Point is she didn’t get that chance to come back and have this investigated, to consider all the facts. Her citizenship was stripped rashly. With the way our govenment is treating things, limiting our rights to protest, populist elements talking about taking us out of the ECHR (lol), they could strip anyone of their citizenship, with no real proper push back. The precedent is there now.
 
She was able to double down on her support for the aims and methods of ISIS when first interviewed by reporters. Her two friends that travelled are dead. At least three children she brought into the world are dead. She appears to have no regrets for any of these events and those she undoubtedly witnessed over a number of years.
 
Hagar said:
She was able to double down on her support for the aims and methods of ISIS when first interviewed by reporters. Her two friends that travelled are dead. At least three children she brought into the world are dead. She appears to have no regrets for any of these events and those she undoubtedly witnessed over a number of years.
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Being groomed at a young age and witnessing horrible things will tend to make a person more ingrained/hardened/emotionless to whatever it is they have fallen into, whether it be gangs/sex trafficking and all it entails or in this care ISIS.

It’s not that straight forward this case was never straightforward. They should have given her proper due process brought her back, sufficiently investigated, charged her with crimes where appropriate as any citizen has a right too.

Il just saying really It shouldn’t have been that easy to strip her of her citizenship, that is unprecedented. Our government can use this very poorly if they wanted too, she was a kid.
 
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