ISIL, ISIS, Daesh discussion thread.

[Allnamestaken]

This is just my opinion guys we don’t have to agree lol. Obviously many won’t, that’s fine.

Ive just worked with vulnerable adults in the past so have seen a side of things some people don’t usually get to. It certainly influences how I view certain things.

 

[Hagar]

Being groomed at a young age and witnessing horrible things will tend to make a person more ingrained/hardened/emotionless to whatever it is they have fallen into, whether it be gangs/sex trafficking and all it entails or in this care ISIS.

It’s not that straight forward this case was never straightforward. They should have given her proper due process brought her back, sufficiently investigated, charged her with crimes where appropriate as any citizen has a right too.

Il just saying really It shouldn’t have been that easy to strip her of her citizenship, that is unprecedented. Our government can use this very poorly if they wanted too, she was a kid.

I am sure that all this has been fully investigated by police, spooks and embassy staffers as appropriate. The due process you are suggesting is a case brought before a crown court and subject to multiple appeals to the supreme Court and maybe beyond. Possibly quite laudable but certain organisations with solely a political axe to grind would have made a meal of it.

The only possible other way would have been a hearing in camera in front of a judge as happens in certain cases where security agencies are involved. That also would create the suspicions you hold as to political interference.

 

[Chris Wilson]

In my ideal world this woman, this traitor, would have been interviewed KGB or MOSSAD style, in a light and well ventilated 6th floor room, and then shown the fastest way to reach the ground floor. Or quietly despatched abroad in deference to the more sensitive souls

As some recompense the dilly dallying has shown the dreadful Baroness Warsi unresisting in sharing a typically biased view :

Sayeeda Warsi said citizenship-stripping powers “have been used almost exclusively against Muslims, mainly of south Asian, Middle Eastern and African heritage, creating a two-tier citizenship system completely at odds with British values of fairness and equality before the law.”

Maybe if so many international terrorists were not of the Muslim faith such seemingly religion "biased" actions would not be called for nor apparent?

 

[iamtheoneneo]

People don’t seem to be empathetic enough to understand she was obviously groomed to go there as an under age child.

The whole unprecedented stripping of her citizenship was a rash decision to appease and appeal to certain demographics .

Objectively you can look at this and see that there was a vulnerable young teenager that was groomed into going.

She deserved to be brought back and tried in our courts and serve a sentence proportionate to her crimes.

On one hand I despise the notion that an individual can be made stateless especially someone so young, despite their crimes I feel like a country has a duty to its citizens no matter how bad ....and yes even if that duty is to basically put them on trial with the motive to lock them up for life.

But I think thats part of the problem here, in that I bet a lot of lawyers across the country wouldn't expect her to spend even 10 years in prison for her crimes.
and because of that it feels like the state just told her to do one, instead of dealing with the massive PR backlash when she does eventually get released.

Im also still amazed that her and the other 2 chumps managed to get so embroiled in the ideology that was basically 'kill everything and anyone that disagrees with us (including other Muslims)', whilst having a somewhat decent standard of living in the UK, I don't see millions of other kids going down the same path that have it far worse.

 

[Efour]

What a terrific waste of money and time for everyone.
2 9mm bullets cost about £1 and could have solved this problem and future ones like it months ago.

#Edgy


Good sentence structure would read again

 

[dowie]

She deserved to be brought back and tried in our courts and serve a sentence proportionate to her crimes.

Well, Bangladesh are able to take her and prosecute her there if they like.

Alternatively, she chose to live there, perhaps she can just stay there and that can be punishment enough.

 

[Allnamestaken]

On one hand I despise the notion that an individual can be made stateless especially someone so young, despite their crimes I feel like a country has a duty to its citizens no matter how bad ....and yes even if that duty is to basically put them on trial with the motive to lock them up for life.

But I think thats part of the problem here, in that I bet a lot of lawyers across the country wouldn't expect her to spend even 10 years in prison for her crimes.
and because of that it feels like the state just told her to do one, instead of dealing with the massive PR backlash when she does eventually get released.

Im also still amazed that her and the other 2 chumps managed to get so embroiled in the ideology that was basically 'kill everything and anyone that disagrees with us (including other Muslims)', whilst having a somewhat decent standard of living in the UK, I don't see millions of other kids going down the same path that have it far worse.

Aye this is my main issue at the end of the day. The stateless aspect of alongside the fact she’s was a child. People have put these things on the side due to the distasteful nature of her crime (I don’t blame them), but people have or had certain rights which were definitely In her case ignored to an extent.

Rather than deal with the issues. The state washed its hands. If she was already back on Uk soil they would never of done this due to the nature of her citizenship, they couldn’t deport her to nowhere.

It’s a nasty precedent and if it’s used against another British citizen again perhaps in an even more grey situation, we don’t want them to just get away with it like they have in this case. Sure a large portion of the public support it but that doesn’t make any of it right. Do you get my meaning?

I’m regards to the standard of living and radicalisation/grooming etc. Your wealth and background don’t make you immune to it, we see plenty of people who fall into these holes from well to do backgrounds, we all have different levels of intelligence and ability to discern things. Some
pf us more easily lead astray than others.

It doesn’t surprise me really.

 

[dowie]

On one hand I despise the notion that an individual can be made stateless especially someone so young, despite their crimes I feel like a country has a duty to its citizens no matter how bad ....and yes even if that duty is to basically put them on trial with the motive to lock them up for life.

She's not being made stateless from the UK's POV, she's got two Bangladeshi parents ergo she's got Bangladeshi citizenship, if they were granted British citizenship too or were considered settled here at the time of her birth (or through simply living here until the age of 10) then she's entitled to be granted British citizenship too (it's not automatically granted simply by being born here though)... she abused that privilege though through joining ISIS and the Home Secretary has the right to remove her British Citizenship as she's a dual national from the UK perspective.

Im also still amazed that her and the other 2 chumps managed to get so embroiled in the ideology that was basically 'kill everything and anyone that disagrees with us (including other Muslims)', whilst having a somewhat decent standard of living in the UK, I don't see millions of other kids going down the same path that have it far worse.

It shouldn't be too amazing there are bound to be some at the tail end and there will be a subset of those who act on their beliefs. Of course, you don't see millions of kids going down this path, it's an extremist ideology.

 

[Allnamestaken]

In my ideal world this woman, this traitor, would have been interviewed KGB or MOSSAD style, in a light and well ventilated 6th floor room, and then shown the fastest way to reach the ground floor. Or quietly despatched abroad in deference to the more sensitive souls

As some recompense the dilly dallying has shown the dreadful Baroness Warsi unresisting in sharing a typically biased view :

Sayeeda Warsi said citizenship-stripping powers “have been used almost exclusively against Muslims, mainly of south Asian, Middle Eastern and African heritage, creating a two-tier citizenship system completely at odds with British values of fairness and equality before the law.”

Maybe if so many international terrorists were not of the Muslim faith such seemingly religion "biased" actions would not be called for nor apparent?

Of course it would you idolise authoritarian regimes for some
odd reason.

It’s one thing to wish her stateless that’s fine and completely understandable due to her crimes.

But you always find a way to make it completely distasteful.

 

[Allnamestaken]

What a terrific waste of money and time for everyone.
2 9mm bullets cost about £1 and could have solved this problem and future ones like it months ago.

#Edgy


Good sentence structure would read again

My grammar is worse than yours don’t worry .

 

[Mekrel]

White 17 year old girl gets groomed by sex traffickers and is paid out 16 million dollars by the British Royal family.

Brown 15 year old girl gets groomed by sex traffickers and gets British passport revoked.

I love how in your awful comparison, you left out the bit about the brown 15 year old was so willing to join ISIS willingly, she stole the passport of her older sister to do so.

The white 17 year old also was paid money because she took her case to a civil court. Has the brown girl also considered doing the same? Perhaps the ironically named morality police of the religious movement she joined will help her obtain justice for being forced into an arranged marriage? Oh wait, that isn't immoral in those circles...

It's a shame when you have to reap what you sow.

 

[StriderX]

I'm a bit confused about how this works since we never recognised ISIS as a state so how precisely have our laws allowed this?

 

[Colonel_Klinck]

I don't think anyone is trying to excuse her actions but we don't treat 15 year olds like adults for a very good reasons, unless you think they should be able to vote, drink, go to war etc. They aren't just given a pass either and IMO she should face a jury of her peers like anyone else that breaks our laws. Stripping someone of their citizenship is just wrong IMO.

I'm not going to lose any sleep over this but I just don't think a child should be treated as an adult and making someone stateless is just wrong.

 

[Moley]

If all kids knew what was right or wrong why don’t we allow them to make certain decisions for themselves? Obviously it isn’t the case, kids more often than not do not know exactly what they are doing or getting themselves into. It’s an easy assumption for you to a make as an adult with hindsight and no childhood indoctrination/grooming/self radicalisation involved (I’m assuming).

Point is she didn’t get that chance to come back and have this investigated, to consider all the facts. Her citizenship was stripped rashly. With the way our govenment is treating things, limiting our rights to protest, populist elements talking about taking us out of the ECHR (lol), they could strip anyone of their citizenship, with no real proper push back. The precedent is there now.

Are you really trying to suggest that 15 years olds don't know the difference between right and wrong? You might want to stop digging.

One of the decisions we don't allow children to make - if we are decent parents - is the decision to run away from home and join a death cult. That her parents failed to stop this is appalling.

Do you even know who radicalised her?

 

[Uther]

As dowie says, she's not stateless, she is Bangladeshi, that's why her British citizenship could be revoked. The Brits probably did it before Bangladesh thought of it.
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. I don't see her as much of a victim, joining a death cult that happily put their slaughter videos online for all to see doesn't garner much sympathy when it all goes wrong.

 

[a1ex2001]

Are you really trying to suggest that 15 years olds don't know the difference between right and wrong? You might want to stop digging.

One of the decisions we don't allow children to make - if we are decent parents - is the decision to run away from home and join a death cult. That her parents failed to stop this is appalling.

Do you even know who radicalised her?

I don’t think anyone is saying 15 years olds don’t know the basic difference between right and wrong but there is a reason children (which is what she was) are treated differently. If she had committed a crime in the uk she would have faced trial in a youth court and a different level of sentence and punishment. If your argument is that a 15 year old is fully responsible for their own actions why are they not allowed to vote? Join the armed forces? Consent to sex, get married, drive a car, own a firearm etc etc.

This whole thing has got out of hand and is costing a fortune because the home secretary got over excited and stripped her citizenship, is anyone really convinced she is a risk to national security? If she committed crimes in Syria then she should be brought home, tried and punished appropriately. Arguing she is a Bangladeshi citizen as our government so is plain odd she has never held a passport or visitors the country!

People saying she should be quietly pushed out of a high rise need to examine there own humanity.

 

[StriderX]

As dowie says, she's not stateless, she is Bangladeshi, that's why her British citizenship could be revoked. The Brits probably did it before Bangladesh thought of it.
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. I don't see her as much of a victim, joining a death cult that happily put their slaughter videos online for all to see doesn't garner much sympathy when it all goes wrong.

Oh she's not stateless then?

Ah well problem solved.

 

[Moley]

I don’t think anyone is saying 15 years olds don’t know the basic difference between right and wrong but there is a reason children (which is what she was) are treated differently. If she had committed a crime in the uk she would have faced trial in a youth court and a different level of sentence and punishment. If your argument is that a 15 year old is fully responsible for their own actions why are they not allowed to vote? Join the armed forces? Consent to sex, get married, drive a car, own a firearm etc etc.

This whole thing has got out of hand and is costing a fortune because the home secretary got over excited and stripped her citizenship, is anyone really convinced she is a risk to national security? If she committed crimes in Syria then she should be brought home, tried and punished appropriately. Arguing she is a Bangladeshi citizen as our government so is plain odd she has never held a passport or visitors the country!

People saying she should be quietly pushed out of a high rise need to examine there own humanity.

Is anyone really convinced she is a risk to national security? Yes. All the judges who have seen the evidence and ruled on it.

If she committed crimes in Syria as opposed to the jurisdiction of the UK courts she should be tried in Syria - we have no legal standing on crimes committed there.

 

[Nasher]

Judges tin the UK tend to side with the individual in this situations and they have all said no. There must be a good reason for it. We won't get to see all the evidence, intelligence etc.

Most of the Brits who did this are now dead, so she has been lucky.

 

[beachBOYken]

She just needs to disappear, problem solved.