ISIL, ISIS, Daesh discussion thread.

Superficial said:
It's amusing that you have no proof of your position but have decided that we should all be misdirected to ignore the things she ACTUALLY did and circle (repeatedly and boringly) around to the age she was when initially making the decision to leave.

And ONCE AGAIN she was not "abandoned to rot" - this was a decision she made by not taking up citizenshp in Bangladesh. A place her family could have moved to to support her and where she undoubtedly has extended family.
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Oh yes the Bangladesh excuse, a country she has never even visited, which has stated she isn’t welcome and has a dubious human rights record. Such a wonderful example for our country to set, next we will be shipping asylum seekers off to dodgy third world countries!

Yes I do keep coming back to her age when she first travelled to Syria because she was a CHILD and for some reason we don’t treat them the same as adults in the UK, once again should 15 year olds be able to vote? Get married? Go to the pub and get wasted? Quit school? fight in our army or be subject to our adult judicial system? You can’t make one 15 year old 100% responsible for one decision and ignore the logical consequence of that opinion ie that 15 year olds are adults and should be treated as such in all circumstances..

What did she actually do please enlighten me I’ve seen very little evidence of her actually doing a great deal in Syria…
 
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Superficial said:
LOL what a joke CAPITALISE and and highlight all you want it's a pathetic and easy get out to support your non arguments. Your approach is simply let's ignore what she ACTUALLY did and let her back in because MAYBE her mind was made up by others. Give me a break.

You don't have any other excuse for her opinions voiced as an ADULT so have decided to childishly revert to the "poor liitle girl the world wronged" argument you have no real evidence for.

Oh and those countless examples that are relevant could ALSO include dangerous people we should not let in that have been indoctrinated I resume? LOL OK have it your way she was so damagd by IS that she can no longer be allowed into the country as she is too dangerous...
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No.

You said:

“ it’s pretty easy to get out of if you ask me “.

That is objectively false about any cult or any kind of indoctrination. Not even relating to Begum
Or any of the idiots who joined ISIS.

That statement is just objectively wrong.

People in cults or other groups with similar followings often have to be deprogrammed.

Again objectively not in relation to Begum what you said is just brushing away reality. It’s not easy for people who are stuck within that frame of mind/reference.

The rest of your post you seemed to have just made up. I never at any point said just let her back in to do what she wants.

Learn to read.

We have all been having a pretty good discussion despite most of us not agreeing with each other. Don’t ruin it by being so emotional.
 
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Superficial said:
And ONCE AGAIN she was not "abandoned to rot" - this was a decision she made by not taking up citizenshp in Bangladesh. A place her family could have moved to to support her and where she undoubtedly has extended family.
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Her father is resident in Bangladesh apparently, only occasionally coming over to his family, wife and children. Possibly to maintain his right to remain or maybe to collect some allowances.
 
a1ex2001 said:
<SNIP>

What did she actually do please enlighten me I’ve seen very little evidence of her actually doing a great deal in Syria…
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I don't think the Islamic State publish time and motion studies for their members, although they do like to publish beheadings, and videos of setting people alight with petrol in cages. Between watching such atrocities what else the woman did is subject to conjecture. Breeding and then losing three infants to an early death would take up some of her time I guess.

How do you square her support for bombing members of the British public which she voiced when aged 19? A lot of criminality starts at a very young age, by your metric adult criminals can state they were mentored by older criminals and every criminal act and support for such acts since then is excused by their initiations as a child.
 
Chris Wilson said:
I don't think the Islamic State publish time and motion studies for their members, although they do like to publish beheadings, and videos of setting people alight with petrol in cages. Between watching such atrocities what else the woman did is subject to conjecture. Breeding and then losing three infants to an early death would take up some of her time I guess.

How do you square her support for bombing members of the British public which she voiced when aged 19? A lot of criminality starts at a very young age, by your metric adult criminals can state they were mentored by older criminals and every criminal act and support for such acts since then is excused by their initiations as a child.
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Which she voices when 19 having spent the last 4+ years living with ISIS who did all the things you describe, which is nothing like the trivial comparison you make. I have at no point said she shouldn't face trial and punishment for her crimes but palming a british citizen off on a Syrian refugee camp and spending millions fighting against her inevitable return is just a ridiculous position for a supposedly developed country to take.
 
Hagar said:
Her father is resident in Bangladesh apparently, only occasionally coming over to his family, wife and children. Possibly to maintain his right to remain or maybe to collect some allowances.
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Reverse the situation for a minute imagine it is Bangladesh that stripped her citizen ship because she had a vague claim to British Citizenship even though she had never visited the country, didn't speak the language and the British government had made it clear they wanted nothing to do with her would you be saying that was a bang up decision from the Bangladeshi Government to be farming their problem off on us?
 
Uther said:
Why do you want her back so badly? What possible contibution will she make to the country.
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Lol find the quote where I said I badly want her back? I just think it is an appalling way to treat a British Citizen who made an awful choice as a child, we should A be giving her the opportunity to rehabilitate and B not be shipping our problems off to third world countries to deal with.
 
a1ex2001 said:
Lol find the quote where I said I badly want her back? I just think it is an appalling way to treat a British Citizen who made an awful choice as a child, we should A be giving her the opportunity to rehabilitate and B not be shipping our problems off to third world countries to deal with.
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All I can suggest is you write to your MP, maybe they'll bring it up in parliament. Or a petition, if you get 100,000 or so like minded individuals it has to be debated in parliament. Good luck with that though.
Raging here will not help her case I'm afraid.
 
Uther said:
All I can suggest is you write to your MP, maybe they'll bring it up in parliament. Or a petition, if you get 100,000 or so like minded individuals it has to be debated in parliament. Good luck with that though.
Raging here will not help her case I'm afraid.
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I wrote to my MP when she had her citizenship taken away, it was an appalling abuse of power. I suspect getting 100K signatures on a petition would be very straightforward especially given the overall level of comments on question time last night sadly our government won't even entertain doing the right thing as they have wedded themselves to this ludicrous position.
 
a1ex2001 said:
I wrote to my MP when she had her citizenship taken away, it was an appalling abuse of power. I suspect getting 100K signatures on a petition would be very straightforward especially given the overall level of comments on question time last night sadly our government won't even entertain doing the right thing as they have wedded themselves to this ludicrous position.
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Don't know till you try. Depends how much energy you want to spend on this terrible injustice. It could become your lifes work.
 
Uther said:
All I can suggest is you write to your MP, maybe they'll bring it up in parliament. Or a petition, if you get 100,000 or so like minded individuals it has to be debated in parliament. Good luck with that though.
Raging here will not help her case I'm afraid.
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He’s not raging though and neither am I or the others who have been discussing this? The only people who have been raging are the ones coming in here and being emotional rather than discussing.

Not talking about yourself, just want to point that out.
 
Allnamestaken said:
He’s not raging though and neither am I or the others who have been discussing this? The only people who have been raging are the ones coming in here and being emotional rather than discussing.

Not talking about yourself, just want to point that out.
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He seems quite upset about it, so I'v pointed out some options that might be more succesful than posting on here. He's already written to his MP, so next he can try the petition. After that maybe set up a campaign to have her brought back.
Again, depends how much of his life he wants to dedicate to her cause.
 
Uther said:
He seems quite upset about it, so I'v pointed out some options that might be more succesful than posting on here. He's already written to his MP, so next he can try the petition. After that maybe set up a campaign to have her brought back.
Again, depends how much of his life he wants to dedicate to her cause.
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I’m more upset by the lack of humanity in my fellow man, I find the lack of compassion, empathy and understanding truly shocking.
 
a1ex2001 said:
I’m more upset by the lack of humanity in my fellow man, I find the lack of compassion, empathy and understanding truly shocking.
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She's a member of an organisation that would cut your head off with a bowie knife given the opportunity. Or throw petrol over you and burn you alive. Or lock you in a cage and drop that cage in a swimming pool to drown you.

It's possible to have too much empathy or direct it towards the wrong people, which is it with you?
 
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a1ex2001 said:
I’m more upset by the lack of humanity in my fellow man, I find the lack of compassion, empathy and understanding truly shocking.
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Well, here's something I never thought I'd see in my wildest dreams, Peter Hitchens (not someone ever accused of having too much empathy ;) ) agreeing with your side of the argument! :eek:

www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-11793153/amp/PETER-HITCHENS-Shamima-Begum-punished-without-trial-nasty-mob-justice.html

I don’t like the look or sound of her. I suspect her basic problem is that she is not very bright. I hope never to meet her. But if anyone has any evidence that she committed a crime, then let them accuse her of it in a court of law, before an impartial jury. And if she is then found guilty I will cheerfully support the punishment she is awarded according to law.

But this cannot happen, as long as she is condemned to spend the rest of her life in some Syrian slum. This is thanks to a cancellation of her citizenship, which reminds me of the thuggish old Soviet Union at its worst, a despotic Third World measure which this ancient civilisation should be ashamed of wielding.
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