ISIL, ISIS, Daesh discussion thread.

[C Kent]

That’s not what I said, I said they shouldn’t take a life changing decision alone that’s very different, do try and keep up!

Not quite, the post in question I'm referring to was a poster saying children should wait until they are 18 and then they can go nuts on whatever experimental drugs that affect hormones they desire, you disagreed implying that children can take whatever they wish regarding gender dysphoria. Now you seem to be saying that someone under the age of 18 is unable to take any sort of accountability, why 18 though? Numerous studies have shown the brain isn't fully developed until the mid 20's, what's the cut off for you for someone to take any sort of responsibility for their actions?

I'm sure if she had shown any remorse for the actions carried out by her religious brothers in arms she would be sitting all nice and comfy in a UK prison, she didn't though so she can rot in hell.

You obviously must think it is ok for them to though as at 15 someone is 100% responsible and accountable for their actions. I’m still impressed nobody has answered my point about abolishing all age restrictions for 15 year olds as clearly they are adults and fully accountable for those choices!

What's your solution? Let's ignore all the evidence quoted by Moley that shows she is still a serious risk to the UK public and welcome her back with open arms, maybe a hug for the poor girl having self-radicalized, I mean she clearly didn't know what she was getting into right? Or would you stick her into the prison system that is run by the Muslim Brotherhood so she can continue to spread her vile hatred?

 

[a1ex2001]

Not quite, the post in question I'm referring to was a poster saying children should wait until they are 18 and then they can go nuts on whatever experimental drugs that affect hormones they desire, you disagreed implying that children can take whatever they wish regarding gender dysphoria. Now you seem to be saying that someone under the age of 18 is unable to take any sort of accountability, why 18 though? Numerous studies have shown the brain isn't fully developed until the mid 20's, what's the cut off for you for someone to take any sort of responsibility for their actions?

I'm sure if she had shown any remorse for the actions carried out by her religious brothers in arms she would be sitting all nice and comfy in a UK prison, she didn't though so she can rot in hell.

What's your solution? Let's ignore all the evidence quoted by Moley that shows she is still a serious risk to the UK public and welcome her back with open arms, maybe a hug for the poor girl having self-radicalized, I mean she clearly didn't know what she was getting into right? Or would you stick her into the prison system that is run by the Muslim Brotherhood so she can continue to spread her vile hatred?

Taking hormone suppressants under medical guidance and advice is not a 15 year old being making a life changing decision alone, nobody in this country is allowed to take hormones to supress puberty without a significant amount of support and professional involvement it is also a decision they can step back from at any time and return to a 'normal' life without significant consequences. Comparing that to a 15 year old taking a life changing decision with nothing but support from other teenagers and an internet full of propaganda is hardly comparing apples with apples but then I should hardly be surprised that the gender argument is weaponised when ever convenient for certain people.

You point about remorse is addressed much better in this article from the Evening Standard than I can

Shamima Begum was brainwashed, she doesn’t owe us regret or remorse

Where would Shamima Begum be now if she had thought to cry in an interview in 2019?

www.standard.co.uk

My solution is simple, bring her home and try her for any crimes she has committed and then apply the correct punishment. I am not asking for an exception to be made for her, she is the one that is an exception by being abandoned to rot in refugee camp. I have seen scant if any evidence that she poses such a serious threat to national security as to warrant the exceptional treatment beyond Javid using it as a convenient excuse to strip her citizenship and look big and tough for his base.

 

[C Kent]

Taking hormone suppressants under medical guidance and advice is not a 15 year old being making a life changing decision alone, nobody in this country is allowed to take hormones to supress puberty without a significant amount of support and professional involvement it is also a decision they can step back from at any time and return to a 'normal' life without significant consequences. Comparing that to a 15 year old taking a life changing decision with nothing but support from other teenagers and an internet full of propaganda is hardly comparing apples with apples but then I should hardly be surprised that the gender argument is weaponised when ever convenient for certain people.

Considering the 'experts' and the like were employed at clinics like Tavistock, they don't have a child's well being as their number one priority. But that's an entirely different thread and not one for here.

Yoeu point about remorse is addressed much better in this article from the Evening Standard than I can

Shamima Begum was brainwashed, she doesn’t owe us regret or remorse

Where would Shamima Begum be now if she had thought to cry in an interview in 2019?

www.standard.co.uk

My solution is simple, bring her home and try her for any crimes she has committed and then apply the correct punishment. I am not asking for an exception to be made for her, she is the one that is an exception by being abandoned to rot in refugee camp. I have seen scant if any evidence that she poses such a serious threat to national security as to warrant the exceptional treatment beyond Javid using it as a convenient excuse to strip her citizenship and look big and tough for his base.

The trouble with opinion pieces like this is that they aren't privy to whatever information the security forces are, and like the vast majority of opinion pieces it can quite easily be tossed in the bin where it belongs.

 

[a1ex2001]

Considering the 'experts' and the like were employed at clinics like Tavistock, they don't have a child's well being as their number one priority. But that's an entirely different thread and not one for here.

The trouble with opinion pieces like this is that they aren't privy to whatever information the security forces are, and like the vast majority of opinion pieces it can quite easily be tossed in the bin where it belongs.

The content of that opinion piece has nothing to do with security information you said yourself in your previous post if she had expressed remorse she would be home now, maybe engage brain and think for a minute why she might not have done...

 

[C Kent]

The content of that opinion piece has nothing to do with security information you said yourself in your previous post if she had expressed remorse she would be home now, maybe engage brain and thing for a minute why she might not have done...

We already know why, she'd happily watch you and your family be slaughtered by her mates.

 

[a1ex2001]

We already know why, she'd happily watch you and your family be slaughtered by her mates.

In your opinion and again in your own words

The content of that opinion piece has nothing to do with security information you said yourself in your previous post if she had expressed remorse she would be home now, maybe engage brain and think for a minute why she might not have done...

Congratulations

 

[C Kent]

In your opinion and again in your own words

Congratulations

So you agree with the article you linked and she was essentially a bored teenager with no media training? ******* laughable

 

[a1ex2001]

So you agree with the article you linked and she was essentially a bored teenager with no media training? ******* laughable

Which isn't what that article says at all, you might want to re-read it.

 

[C Kent]

Which isn't what that article says at all, you might want to re-read it.

hmmm

in a Sky News interview she had the wrong expression on her face — teenage ingratitude, entitlement, irritation — and said exactly the wrong thing. “I think a lot of people should have sympathy towards me for everything I’ve been through,” she told the reporter. And later says, in a bored manner, “I just want forgiveness, really, from the UK.”

and not quite grasp all the finer points of media presentation

What the opinion piece author and yourself constantly ignore is that she wasn't brainwashed so to speak, she actively sought out and ran off to join the jihadis, she was already a fully paid up member.

 

[a1ex2001]

hmmm


What the opinion piece author and yourself constantly ignore is that she wasn't brainwashed so to speak, she actively sought out and ran off to join the jihadis, she was already a fully paid up member.

Final comment from me for the day as I'm bored of going round and round and I'm going to repeat the point I've made about a dozen times which nobody seems to have an answer for.

You contest that she is fully responsible for her actions at 15, so I ask once again when shall we remove all restrictions that people of that age in the UK are subject to? You after all can't have it both ways if a 15 year old is old enough to take full responsibility for this decision then I assume you will be campaigning for the vote to be given to them? The age for a driving license being lowered, the age of consent and marriage being reduced, for all 15 year olds to be allowed to get drunk down the local and of course for the Armed Forces recruitment age to be lowered? after all 15 year olds are fully responsible for there actions and able to take informed intelligent decisions that impact the rest of their lives and should accept the consequences of them no matter how terrible......

Oh and this idea that because she wasn't actively recruited she wasn't radicalised is just a convenient excuse for the throw her off the roof brigade.

 

[C Kent]

If it means you refrain from posting terrible opinion pieces I think we can all be grateful.

 

[a1ex2001]

If it means you refrain from posting terrible opinion pieces I think we can all be grateful.

How hard is it to Just answer the question? when will you campaign for 15 year olds to be given the vote and all the other adult rights they are clearly entitled to as they are fully responsible, educated and emotionally mature individuals!?!?!?!

Definitely final post of the day probably
Maybe

 

[Superficial]

How hard is it to Just answer the question? when will you campaign for 15 year olds to be given the vote and all the other adult rights they are clearly entitled to as they are fully responsible, educated and emotionally mature individuals!?!?!?!

Definitely final post of the day probably
Maybe

Your argument here is totally reliant on her age when she made her initial choices. She made choices every day as she grew to be an adult as well you know.

If you took the time to absorb the majority of opinions here you'd see that many have discussed her choices as an ADULT. You've joined in on that topic but curiously have repeatedly gone back to the 'she was just a child' argument.

Sorry but you'd have to supply the evidence to convince any level headed person why any teenager or adult (whatever their age) would be so menatally screwed up by this so-called 'indoctrination' (pretty easy get out if you ask me) that they would continue saying things which form the basis of a security issue years after she was 15.

The thing is most of us would have expected her to be utterly repulsed by IS and their ideas after being exposed to murder not mention terrified instead she carried on with it. I mean these IS guys must be mind control experts or something right?

I think the truth is she has just learned (finally) to say what she feels will get her back to the UK.

 

[a1ex2001]

Your argument here is totally reliant on her age when she made her initial choices. She made choices every day as she grew to be an adult as well you know.

If you took the time to absorb the majority of opinions here you'd see that many have discussed her choices as an ADULT. You've joined in on that topic but curiously have repeatedly gone back to the 'she was just a child' argument.

Sorry but you'd have to supply the evidence to convince any level headed person why any teenager or adult (whatever their age) would be so menatally screwed up by this so-called 'indoctrination' (pretty easy get out if you ask me) that they would continue saying things which form the basis of a security issue years after she was 15.

The thing is most of us would have expected her to be utterly repulsed by IS and their ideas after being exposed to murder not mention terrified instead she carried on with it. I mean these IS guys must be mind control experts or something right?

I think the truth is she has just learned (finally) to say what she feels will get her back to the UK.

She joined a cult as a child and then grew up within the cult, there are countless examples of people within cults believing all sorts of ridiculous things even those who have joined them as fully fledged adults. It's amusing how anything she said that supports your position is the gospel truth and her hardened everlasting view that cannot be changed and anything else is just playing up to the media. She is clearly a badly damaged individual but abandoning a British citizen to rot in a refugee camp because it suits a certain political party's narrative is not becoming of a first world country.

 

[Allnamestaken]

That’s not what I said, I said they shouldn’t take a life changing decision alone that’s very different, do try and keep up! You obviously must think it is ok for them to though as at 15 someone is 100% responsible and accountable for their actions. I’m still impressed nobody has answered my point about abolishing all age restrictions for 15 year olds as clearly they are adults and fully accountable for those choices!

This is my main erk. People are in general are understanding of the fact young children/teens under 16 can be lead/influenced/groomed/indoctrinated in some way. Most of our laws are are in one way or another based around things like this. Just because a person is reading the information themselves does not mean they have not been influenced or groomed and currently being encouraged to keep looking into it in some way. This doesn't have to be about say ISIS, any type of cult type media.

We can understand that this happens to young people all the time as we have laws to try and safeguard from these things, but in this case people just throw that out of the window.
Apparently young people can't be groomed/indoctrinated or in anyway influenced to seek out or join ISIS I suppose lol, a death cult is just a little too culty for that to occur.

No matter what way you look at it, objectively she was a child and in her most formative years she was encouraged and then sought out things that ended radicalising her in one manner or the other. It didn't just happen over night, it would have started some time before she was 15.

Washing our hands of the situation is pathetic and lazy and attempts to throw the problem at other countries or allies in the case of that British man are equally lazy. At the end of the day she's an idiot, she joined ISIS but she wasn't anyone else's terrorist she was ours. We should have dealt with it properly, brought her back done all due diligence, sent her through the system and courts and ultimately prison as required.

 

[Allnamestaken]

I don't know about Moley, but no, of course I don't.



I'd like to see her hung or shot for treason! And her family thoroughly investigated, although I would hope that's already been done, but who knows with some of the wets in government?

Can you just get it over with and move to moscow already lol. Between this and your other putin posts you would fit right in xD.

 

[Uther]

She joined a cult as a child and then grew up within the cult, there are countless examples of people within cults believing all sorts of ridiculous things even those who have joined them as fully fledged adults. It's amusing how anything she said that supports your position is the gospel truth and her hardened everlasting view that cannot be changed and anything else is just playing up to the media. She is clearly a badly damaged individual but abandoning a British citizen to rot in a refugee camp because it suits a certain political party's narrative is not becoming of a first world country.

She's not a British citizen any more, she did something so abhorrant whilst being in the unfortunate position of being eligible for dual nationality (usually a plus) that she lost that priviledge. She can't be let out on the streets, so why should the British public be asked to pay for her prison stay for the next XX years?
Sucks to be her.

 

[Allnamestaken]

Your argument here is totally reliant on her age when she made her initial choices. She made choices every day as she grew to be an adult as well you know.

If you took the time to absorb the majority of opinions here you'd see that many have discussed her choices as an ADULT. You've joined in on that topic but curiously have repeatedly gone back to the 'she was just a child' argument.

Sorry but you'd have to supply the evidence to convince any level headed person why any teenager or adult (whatever their age) would be so menatally screwed up by this so-called 'indoctrination' (pretty easy get out if you ask me) that they would continue saying things which form the basis of a security issue years after she was 15.

The thing is most of us would have expected her to be utterly repulsed by IS and their ideas after being exposed to murder not mention terrified instead she carried on with it. I mean these IS guys must be mind control experts or something right?

I think the truth is she has just learned (finally) to say what she feels will get her back to the UK.

Sorry but that part I have highlighted is absolute nonsense
I just want to point out, not in relation to Begum but in general.

Indoctrination into cults or just in general that form of brain washing/radicalisation is NOT easy to get out of, there are many factors as to why.
If it was SO EASY we would not have so many of them around the world, there are COUNTLESS stories and examples of people who have suffered from a indoctrination of some kind and how hard it is to escape.

Religious cults are some of the easier examples to find, Jehovah's witnesses have some pretty interesting examples showing just how hard it can be to leave an abusive manipulative cult.




Indoctrination: "Pretty easy to get out of if you ask me"

 

[Superficial]

Sorry but that part I have highlighted is absolute nonsense
I just want to point out, not in relation to Begum but in general.

Indoctrination into cults or just in general that form of brain washing/radicalisation is NOT easy to get out of, there are many factors as to why.
If it was SO EASY we would not have so many of them around the world, there are COUNTLESS stories and examples of people who have suffered from a indoctrination of some kind and how hard it is to escape.

Religious cults are some of the easier examples to find, Jehovah's witnesses have some pretty interesting examples showing just how hard it can be to leave an abusive manipulative cult.




Indoctrination: "Pretty easy to get out of if you ask me"

LOL what a joke CAPITALISE and and highlight all you want it's a pathetic and easy get out to support your non arguments. Your approach is simply let's ignore what she ACTUALLY did and let her back in because MAYBE her mind was made up by others. Give me a break.

You don't have any other excuse for her opinions voiced as an ADULT so have decided to childishly revert to the "poor liitle girl the world wronged" argument you have no real evidence for.

Oh and those countless examples that are relevant could ALSO include dangerous people we should not let in that have been indoctrinated I resume? LOL OK have it your way she was so damagd by IS that she can no longer be allowed into the country as she is too dangerous...

 

[Superficial]

She joined a cult as a child and then grew up within the cult, there are countless examples of people within cults believing all sorts of ridiculous things even those who have joined them as fully fledged adults. It's amusing how anything she said that supports your position is the gospel truth and her hardened everlasting view that cannot be changed and anything else is just playing up to the media. She is clearly a badly damaged individual but abandoning a British citizen to rot in a refugee camp because it suits a certain political party's narrative is not becoming of a first world country.

It's amusing that you have no proof of your position but have decided that we should all be misdirected to ignore the things she ACTUALLY did and circle (repeatedly and boringly) around to the age she was when initially making the decision to leave.

And ONCE AGAIN she was not "abandoned to rot" - this was a decision she made by not taking up citizenshp in Bangladesh. A place her family could have moved to to support her and where she undoubtedly has extended family.