Thread responses could just be split along these lines. If a white British girl (with an Irish grandparent) had been groomed by ISIS, and she was in this situation would the UK government (and the posters on here) be saying "she is able to get an Irish passport"? She would have been brought back, regardless of any security issues. She is not being brought back because she is brown, and "security issues" is the excuse.
ISIL, ISIS, Daesh discussion thread.
- Thread starter RoboCod
- Start date
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White Brits have joined the Islamic State and I think everyone aganst bringing this Begum woman back to the UK would also be against them being repatriated too. I don't care what colour or shade this woman is, I would want her and those like her blocked from returning here.
Soldato
There is no evidence she was groomed, people need to stop saying she was without evidence. She actively sought out ISIS and self-radicalised along with her two little friends and Sharmeena Begum. The Counter Extremism Report on her and the Council of Europe report on The Role of Women in Daesh make this very clear if you bother to read them.
Also a white male by the name of Jack Letts (known in the press as 'Jihadi Jack' was also stripped of his British Citizenship in the same year, so lets not play the race card here.
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Soldato
Jack Letts was a white British male, with dual citizenship with Canada. The UK stripped him of his citizenship when he went to join ISIS. They stripped his citizenship because he wasn't Stateless, due to having Canadian citizenship through his father. So no, it's got nothing to do with being brown - stop looking for racism when it isn't there.
Begum doesn't have dual citizenship, plus she was 15 when she went. Letts had dual citizenship and was 18. Is maths a problem for you?
BTW the UK didn't strip him of his citizen when he went there. They stripped him when he wanted to come back to give Canada the problem. Canadian officials have said as much as he was born and raised in the UK and he travelled there from the UK, so legally he should be prosecuted in the UK for his crimes. It leaves everyone in a big mess, but that's what the UK government is good at.
It's certainly a bad way to keep friends with allies if we keep burdening them with our mess.
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Yes, no evidence at all except the evidence the court has seen:
Here are some of the court’s key findings.
The ruling said: “In the commission’s opinion, there is a credible suspicion that Ms Begum was recruited, transferred and then harboured for the purpose of sexual exploitation. She was a child at the time.”
The court said that Begum had been radicalised online through Isis propaganda and potential contact with recruiters, and that the idea she could have “conceived and organised [her travel to Syria] herself is not plausible”.
“Getting to the Syrian border would not have been straightforward even for someone ten years older,” the ruling added.
“There must be a credible suspicion that she was in touch with [people in Syria] before she left the United Kingdom and that they provided encouragement.”
10 key findings from Shamima Begum’s failed citizenship appeal
Court ruling says there was ‘credible suspicion’ she was trafficked by Isis and authorities failed to protect her
www.independent.co.uk
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Yes, no evidence at all except the evidence the court has seen:
Here are some of the court’s key findings.
The ruling said: “In the commission’s opinion, there is a credible suspicion that Ms Begum was recruited, transferred and then harboured for the purpose of sexual exploitation. She was a child at the time.”
The court said that Begum had been radicalised online through Isis propaganda and potential contact with recruiters, and that the idea she could have “conceived and organised [her travel to Syria] herself is not plausible”.
“Getting to the Syrian border would not have been straightforward even for someone ten years older,” the ruling added.
“There must be a credible suspicion that she was in touch with [people in Syria] before she left the United Kingdom and that they provided encouragement.”
10 key findings from Shamima Begum’s failed citizenship appeal
Court ruling says there was ‘credible suspicion’ she was trafficked by Isis and authorities failed to protect her
If I were you I'd see if you can get her over to Finland and give her a roof over her head with you. I don't think calling out the UK government is a sensible thing to do with your current neighbour's potential ambitions at the moment, either...
Soldato
Yes, no evidence at all except the evidence the court has seen:
Here are some of the court’s key findings.
The ruling said: “In the commission’s opinion, there is a credible suspicion that Ms Begum was recruited, transferred and then harboured for the purpose of sexual exploitation. She was a child at the time.”
The court said that Begum had been radicalised online through Isis propaganda and potential contact with recruiters, and that the idea she could have “conceived and organised [her travel to Syria] herself is not plausible”.
“Getting to the Syrian border would not have been straightforward even for someone ten years older,” the ruling added.
“There must be a credible suspicion that she was in touch with [people in Syria] before she left the United Kingdom and that they provided encouragement.”
10 key findings from Shamima Begum’s failed citizenship appeal
Court ruling says there was ‘credible suspicion’ she was trafficked by Isis and authorities failed to protect her
Recruitment is not grooming. If it were every employer in the world who advertises for employees would be a groomer. Read the Counter Extremism Report on her to better understand this.
She was radicalised, correct, mostly by herself and her friends including Sharmeena Begum. To quote directly from the report: "Shamima Begun later claimed Sharmeena Begum had inspired her, Sultana, and Abase to join ISIS. Begum credited Sharmeena Begum’s radicalization with encouraging the online radicalization of her and her friends. According to Begum, the three friends “fed off each other.”
That she had help getting to the border, from Turkey isn't evidence of grooming, it's evidence of ISIS providing a travel service - although there is some evidence that they were actually helped on this leg of the journey by a Canadian Spook. She managed to get to Turkey fine by herself, including stealing her 17 year old sisters passport in order to be able to travel as not a minor - this shows agency and intent on her part.
Seriously, read the Counter Extremism Projects report on her specifically and the Council of Europes report on The Role of Women in Daesh. You are missing a shed load of information and context otherwise.
Soldato
Put your handbag down. They didn't strip her citizenship when she went there either, or are you cherry picking when the citizenship was revoked in order to incorrectly make it about racism? She left in 2015, and had her citizenship revoked in 2019. Sorry, but Canada's viewpoint about where Jack Letts should be tried isn't gospel truth. He should be prosecuted by the legal system of the territory he committed his crimes in. Were the Peru 2 sent back to the UK to be tried for trying to smuggle drugs from Peru to Spain? No, they were prosecuted and imprisoned in Peru.
Funny how the Canadians are crying foul, yet can't be too fussed about him considering almost four years after the UK stripped him of his citizenship, he's still in a Kurdish jail?
This is what you said. Which I was pointing out was not correct. They stripped it when he wanted to come back to avoid responsibility.
The Canadians can't prosecute him for travelling from the UK to join ISIS. So they get him to Canada and then what? Set him free, so he can come back to the UK?
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Soldato
It's not a literal sentence, "when he went" refers to the fact they stripped him of citizenship when he chose to be part of a terrorist movement, not literally when he left.
Who said anything about the Canadians prosecuting him? Why do you incorrectly think a person has to be prosecuted where they have citizenship? You better write a strongly worded letter to the producers of "Banged Up Abroad", because their television series must be based on a load of lies. He can't come back to the UK by default, he doesn't have citizenship.
Who said anything about the Canadians prosecuting him? Why do you incorrectly think a person has to be prosecuted where they have citizenship? You better write a strongly worded letter to the producers of "Banged Up Abroad", because their television series must be based on a load of lies. He can't come back to the UK by default, he doesn't have citizenship.
Soldato
No, the Canadians would be stupid to let a potentially stabby terrorist in their country, just as the Brits would. Let them rot in whatever **** hole country they are in now.They made their choice, now they can suffer the consequences.
**** them.
Soldato
That’s not what I said, I said they shouldn’t take a life changing decision alone that’s very different, do try and keep up! You obviously must think it is ok for them to though as at 15 someone is 100% responsible and accountable for their actions. I’m still impressed nobody has answered my point about abolishing all age restrictions for 15 year olds as clearly they are adults and fully accountable for those choices!
Soldato
We are wasting millions I’m sure, the ongoing court cases will be costing the public purse a fortune and one day she will return. The camps in Syria will gradually empty and the pressure on the UK to take her back will be irresistible as leaving her to rot indefinitely will have an impact on our international reputation. A future Home Secretary will inevitably decide she is no longer a security risk and re-instate her citizenship so all this will have been for nothing.
Soldato
She was radicalised as a child and you think for that she should be punished for life with no hope of parole?
Permabanned
I don't know about Moley, but no, of course I don't.
I'd like to see her hung or shot for treason! And her family thoroughly investigated, although I would hope that's already been done, but who knows with some of the wets in government?
Soldato
She's not being punished. She's not been convicted or sentenced, she's being spared that. She's just not allowed to come back to the UK because our intelligence services - who have a HELL of a lot more information on her than is public - assess her to still be in contact with ISIS and pose an ongoing threat to the safety of the public.
As the Supreme Court made perfectly clear, the publics right to safety trumps her right to a fair trial every single time.
When/If she is assessed as no longer posing a threat, then she can apply to come back here again - so NOT 'punished for life with no hope for parole' as you so hyperbolically phrased it.
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