ISIL, ISIS, Daesh discussion thread.

Could we see france invoke article 5 of NATO? The president of france has already said the attacks where an act of war.

While France hasn’t invoked Article 5, NATO’s secretary-general Jens Stoltenberg said members are ready to assist.
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For those that dont know Article 5 basically states an attack on one country is an attack on all and forces them to respond in some way. Was last used by america after 9/11.
 
Danny091 said:
Could we see france invoke article 5 of NATO? The president of france has already said the attacks where an act of war.



For those that dont know Article 5 basically states an attack on one country is an attack on all and forces them to respond in some way. Was last used by america after 9/11.
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Well its and act of war but which nation? its a terror group since the middle east has been destabilized they have easily spread out, where to attack? Iraq, Syria, Libya?
 
bitslice said:
Imagine if the Middle East was full of Methodists when Amercia arrived looking for WoMD, would all the Methodists suddenly turn into Ultra Evangelical Christians and turn their women into Stepford wives? Would they march up and down and blame everything on sin and homosexuals?

Yet in the same power vacuum that America created, muslims instantly revert to the base ideals of the quran, they turn ultra orthodox and run around like little Mohammeds in a Jewish supermarket, hacking as they go.

Islamic culture is always on the precipice of turning into a monster, and the recipe for that monster clearly lies in the quran
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Oversimplification, so you're either ignorant of the actual reality or decided to leave it out.;)

The Allies invade Iraq and remove the government, 'supporting' a Shia led one which is rejected by many. Reports of Shia persecution and oppression of Sunnis, who until recently held power even though they were the minority.

AQ and others cross over into Iraq to support the insurgents against the Allied occupation, bringing with them a more militaristic interpretation of Islam. This is the perfect opportunity for them to expand their sphere of influence.

Sunni death squads kill Shias and any other Muslims who appear to support the US led invasion (arguably they're traitors).

Shia death squads kill Sunnis who had a) abused their power over shias before and b) committed atrocities against non-Sunni communities.

Numerous atrocities are committed by all sides which neither the Quran nor Sharia justify.

Non-AQ affiliated Sunni insurgents and tribes take the fight to AQ because they disagree with their interpretation of Islam.

There. A bit more detail for you.
 
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Hitman_Leon said:
Good.



It's all very well saying that until you see what it does to the people wearing those boots. My youngest brother and a couple of close friends have been to both Iraq and Afghanistan. There needs to be better aftercare of our armed forces. They sign up to do a job, that's true but they need better aftercare, laying their lives on the line in a fight is one thing. They need better help to continue their lives when they come home.
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Too bad no one cares for soldiers then, otherwise we wouldn't need charities for them.

Government is too busy killing old ladies to help anyone they send abroad.
 
bitslice said:
This is what lib-left constantly get wrong and their naivety is so bloody infuriating - all they see is another religion and assume it is a minority that must need molly coddling. When really islam is nothing less than a relentless social tool designed to replicate and expand until it dominates everything.
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I'm split as I understand the logic, however everyone is entitled to make their own decision - and those as leaders are entitled to teach integration or segregation.

There are two options:
* tar everyone with the same brush and close the door - assuming one interpretation is the only interpretation
* leave the door open and allow those that are different to make a difference.

I understand your point about being a social tool (as all grouping are), the written rules are just like computer code.

Sure - apply pressure to ensure mortal safety is ensured. Over time things change - that will include every religion. People are not computers or machines.

The only result is suffering and destruction - just like WW2. The hunger for power is not a means to an end, the result is fragmentation until someone says - enough.

That state of war is already in progress within the tribes - unfortunately powered by the leaders alternative agenda.
 
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Danny091 said:
Could we see france invoke article 5 of NATO? The president of france has already said the attacks where an act of war.

For those that dont know Article 5 basically states an attack on one country is an attack on all and forces them to respond in some way. Was last used by america after 9/11.
Click to expand...

Basically the french doing their own precision targeting is to send a message that (a) they don't need other states to hit back, (b) they can easily do the same inside France in terms of security, and (c) they stand shoulder to shoulder with member states (although you don't hear them publicly attacking targets).

Going all out NATO would cause civil unrest in all countries and be used as an excuse to propagate recruitment. If continued military action occurs I'd assume it would be french planes and allied drones.
 
Personally I hope France turns the ****ing place to glass and does the whole world a favour..
Putin isn't far behind either by the sounds of it, his proverbial pot of **** has boiled over too after the plane bombing..
 
It would be a silver lining if the west did actually team up with Russia and China to tackle this mess.

Kind of like the plot from The Watchmen.
 
Raz said:
Oversimplification, so you're either ignorant of the actual reality or decided to leave it out.;)

The Allies invade Iraq and remove the government, 'supporting' a Shia led one which is rejected by many. Reports of Shia persecution and oppression of Sunnis, who until recently held power even though they were the minority.

AQ and others cross over into Iraq to support the insurgents against the Allied occupation, bringing with them a more militaristic interpretation of Islam. This is the perfect opportunity for them to expand their sphere of influence.

Sunni death squads kill Shias and any other Muslims who appear to support the US led invasion (arguably they're traitors).

Shia death squads kill Sunnis who had a) abused their power over shias before and b) committed atrocities against non-Sunni communities.

Numerous atrocities are committed by all sides which neither the Quran nor Sharia justify.

Non-AQ affiliated Sunni insurgents and tribes take the fight to AQ because they disagree with their interpretation of Islam.

There. A bit more detail for you.
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and then after all that...

Shia govt has a strong majoirty (for obvious reasons)

US appeals to Iraqi govt to make power sharing work

Sunni still marginalized by Shia govt - Iraqis can't play nicely together

Syria kicks off - Obama draws a line in the sand... line is crossed(use of chemical weapons), Obama is weak and does nothing

ISIS grows in power in Syria and Iraq - disenfranchised Sunni communities in Iraq offer no resistance to ISIS and even support them.. as a result ISIS takes control of Sunni areas (aside from Kurdish held ones)

Iraqi govt pleads with US to intervene - US only offers limited intervention/air strikes to prevent massacres/genocide as they don't want to be seen to be attacking sunni/propping up a shia govt after they've repeatedly tried to get them to agree to power sharing

ISIS continues to grow in power - refugee camps set up in Turkey and Jordan - biggest source of funding coming from the US and UK... but some European countries have the bright idea of encouraging migrants and refugees to enter Europe - not only is it less efficient to house and feed a refugee in the west than in Turkey/Jordan but it also means the people coming are among the fittest and with the most financial resources to pay smugglers etc... Many of them die making the journey, a kid who was already safely in Turkey with his family (with the use of a house + father in employment in Turkey) is washed up on a beach as his family tries to make the journey from one safe country to a richer EU one - facebook goes crazy and there is public pressure on politicians to worsen the problem by encouraging even more people to make that dangerous journey - #refugeeswelcome etc...

Meanwhile elderly people, people with no resources, the sick etc.. are in camps in Turkey/Jordan. ISIS threatens to send in its fighters among the refugees/migrants... Europe's open borders are an obvious weakness - some countries try to close borders citing terrorism etc.. and are criticized heavily.


ISIS then does send in some fighters - they kill over 100 people in Paris....
 
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Seems Raqqa has no water or electricity at the minute if you believe the DM there is panic. Just goes to show all this sitting back was useless and at worst sinister. Russia and now France has done more damage in a few weeks than the entire campaign by Shiekh Obama.
 
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